C8 Corvette Will Only be Available with Two Pedals - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

P.C. · #1 03-02-2020, 08:42 PM

...and don’t get me started on power-assisted steering...

rwd4evr · #2 03-02-2020, 11:02 PM

I don't know wtf you are all talking about "trolling". I'm dead serious. I can not lock up my brakes better than a computer. I can detect wheels locking up before it happens actually. Have ears? I'm obviously a far more competent driver than any of you who dissagrees. I don't pump them like a retard. If I lock wheel it's one quick release them reapply. I'm glad l this crap exists so people's grandparents and really the majority of the general public don't go sliding off the road at every intersection. A Corvette is a sports car, an enthusiast' car, or was at one point. Someone mentioned they buy manual Ferraris because they are more valuable. Go buy real estate dude. It's a car to BE DRIVEN. Not a statement, not a symbol not a piece of jewelry to help get your old ugly ass laid. A sports car with no Nanny's and a manual transmission is the most pure driving experience. If you can't handle that third pedal correctly or the confusing stick that goes 5 or 6 different scary places that's fine, there's an automatic girls versions of the car for you. To eliminate the manual option is lame. It's all for bean counters an wussy incompetent rich(ish) boys that can't do it right. The manual option should be there for every real performance car except maybe a drag car. But that's more fun with a stick too...

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davidmash · #3 03-02-2020, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

I don't know wtf you are all talking about "trolling". I'm dead serious. I can not lock up my brakes better than a computer. I can detect wheels locking up before it happens actually. Have ears? I'm obviously a far more competent driver than any of you who dissagrees. I don't pump them like a retard. If I lock wheel it's one quick release them reapply. I'm glad l this crap exists so people's grandparents and really the majority of the general public don't go sliding off the road at every intersection. A Corvette is a sports car, an enthusiast' car, or was at one point. Someone mentioned they buy manual Ferraris because they are more valuable. Go buy real estate dude. It's a car to BE DRIVEN. Not a statement, not a symbol not a piece of jewelry to help get your old ugly ass laid. A sports car with no Nanny's and a manual transmission is the most pure driving experience. If you can't handle that third pedal correctly or the confusing stick that goes 5 or 6 different scary places that's fine, there's an automatic girls versions of the car for you. To eliminate the manual option is lame. It's all for bean counters an wussy incompetent rich(ish) boys that can't do it right. The manual option should be there for every real performance car except maybe a drag car. But that's more fun with a stick too...

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The idea that you think you can detect wheel lock up better than a computer that has a sensor attached directly to the wheel which is analyzing that wheel countless times a second, that can pump the brake multiple times a second, is laughable and arrogant. If you want to drive a car with out ABS go right ahead. It is statically proven that under the same circumstances, the car with ABS will stop shorter, straighter and sooner than you can in a car with out.
chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/nhtsaabst4finalrpt.pdf
Science does not lie.

F1 drivers no longer use a manual trans. They use paddle shifters. Are you a better driver than them as well?

Manuals are disappearing because they are no longer popular. They are disappearing from sports cars because they are no longer popular. According to the latest stats I have read, the computer can shift the car almost twice as fast as you can with nearly no power loss. While your manual may be more fun to drive (I liked rowing through the gears as well) people who race like to win, not have fun, sooooo there is that.

rwd4evr · #4 03-03-2020, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

The idea that you think you can detect wheel lock up better than a computer that has a sensor attached directly to the wheel which is analyzing that wheel countless times a second, that can pump the brake multiple times a second, is laughable and arrogant. If you want to drive a car with out ABS go right ahead. It is statically proven that under the same circumstances, the car with ABS will stop shorter, straighter and sooner than you can in a car with out.

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/nhtsaabst4finalrpt.pdf

Science does not lie.

F1 drivers no longer use a manual trans. They use paddle shifters. Are you a better driver than them as well?

Manuals are disappearing because they are no longer popular. They are disappearing from sports cars because they are no longer popular. According to the latest stats I have read, the computer can shift the car almost twice as fast as you can with nearly no power loss. While your manual may be more fun to drive (I liked rowing through the gears as well) people who race like to win, not have fun, sooooo there is that.

A Corvette is not a race car. It's a street car. 10ths of a second are a completely moot point. I'm not gonna argue over abs. Go mash your abs pedal going into a fast decreasing radius corner and see who gets through it better. You on abs or me trail braking properly. F1 uses paddle shifters because races are won by milliseconds. The cars are so even it's all up to mistakes by the drivers or crew. Paddles reduce mistakes. F1 drivers in the 60s 70s 80s were far better drivers. Come out and take some laps in in my drift car and see what I'm talking about. I know exactly what the wheels are doing in a car when I'm driving it. I can feel it in my ass. Watch the f1 movie about Nikki Lauda and James hunt(can't think of the name right now) he says exactly the same thing. I don't care what you think about old tech or what's popular or any of that. The some fact is that all that $hit is taking away from the driving experience. It's ok if you want or need help driving your car. I don't. Never had a traffic accident because of my driving, never wrecked a car because I didn't have abs or traction control, on or off a racetrack. Never enjoyed a car as much with an auto, but my Subaru OBS in the snow was pretty damn fun. 5 speed would have been better though.

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davidmash · #5 03-03-2020, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

A Corvette is not a race car. It's a street car. 10ths of a second are a completely moot point. I'm not gonna argue over abs. Go mash your abs pedal going into a fast decreasing radius corner and see who gets through it better. You on abs or me trail braking properly. F1 uses paddle shifters because races are won by milliseconds. The cars are so even it's all up to mistakes by the drivers or crew. Paddles reduce mistakes. F1 drivers in the 60s 70s 80s were far better drivers. Come out and take some laps in in my drift car and see what I'm talking about. I know exactly what the wheels are doing in a car when I'm driving it. I can feel it in my ass. Watch the f1 movie about Nikki Lauda and James hunt(can't think of the name right now) he says exactly the same thing. I don't care what you think about old tech or what's popular or any of that. The some fact is that all that $hit is taking away from the driving experience. It's ok if you want or need help driving your car. I don't. Never had a traffic accident because of my driving, never wrecked a car because I didn't have abs or traction control, on or off a racetrack. Never enjoyed a car as much with an auto, but my Subaru OBS in the snow was pretty damn fun. 5 speed would have been better though.

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Street cars are what we are talking about. Street cars are not going to encounter an decreasing radius curve while racing another car. They are faster and that is the only point I am making. The computer can shift faster than you can. We are talking about safety on the road. Not race cars. You have an idea what your wheels are doing. A computer knows exactly what the wheels are doing. By the way, if ABS is so bad, why did F1 have to ban it? Like you said, it makes the cars even and leaves it up to a mistake from the driver. It makes them "better" drivers because they cannot drive as a goof as the computer can. If everyone in the room has a calculator they will all come up with the same answer as long as no one keys something in wrong. That is because no one can calculate as well as a computer can.

I have never been in an accident that I cause either either. So what?

You are free to enjoy what ever you want. To slam others for enjoying or taking advantage of the modern tech available is just immature.

rwd4evr · #6 03-02-2020, 11:07 PM

T walgamuth, did you not write this? It sure looks like you are the troll here. You clearly said you had the info I needed, asked me to be more clear in my plan which I then laid out for everyone who was involved in MY build thread then decided to not answer at all for days. I messaged you to not be a dick on my thread. Looks like you are the dick Gramps.

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t walgamuth · #7 03-02-2020, 11:12 PM

You're right I am a gramps.

rwd4evr · #8 03-03-2020, 11:46 AM

We were originally talking about how id rather have a real stick for a pure driving experience and everyone started changing the subject to investing in cars, how it's a dying technology, that computers make better shifts, rev matching saves wesr on the car. Then people accused me of "trolling" which doesn't even apply here. I dont believe I personally bashed anyone except t walgamuth who threw the first punch after proclaiming he had all the answers to my questions then dissapeared. Apparently I raidded him since I asked I him personally before badgering again on my personal build thread. Bit if you all want to be butt hurt so be it. I'll just say it. I'm a better driver than you all and your computers. How else would I beat a modified 2008 330ci twin turbo in an autocross with a 200 hp 3400 pound 450slc on ****ty rear tires? No computers against all of them. Go enjoy your computer clutch pusher. I. Never said you can't. It's just not doing for yourself, " the new way".

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davidmash · #9 03-03-2020, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

We were originally talking about how id rather have a real stick for a pure driving experience and everyone started changing the subject to investing in cars, how it's a dying technology, that computers make better shifts, rev matching saves wesr on the car. Then people accused me of "trolling" which doesn't even apply here. I dont believe I personally bashed anyone except t walgamuth who threw the first punch after proclaiming he had all the answers to my questions then dissapeared. Apparently I raidded him since I asked I him personally before badgering again on my personal build thread. Bit if you all want to be butt hurt so be it. I'll just say it. I'm a better driver than you all and your computers. How else would I beat a modified 2008 330ci twin turbo in an autocross with a 200 hp 3400 pound 450slc on ****ty rear tires? No computers against all of them. Go enjoy your computer clutch pusher. I. Never said you can't. It's just not doing for yourself, " the new way".

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No one changed the topic. Tom made one comment about a Ferrari being a better investment as a stick vs auto.

Your comments were a bit more than you just talking about your driving experience. Your first post started with you crticizing others.

Quote:

Add in a bunch of kids who grew up playing video games and can't or don't want to learn how to drive. If you honestly prefer a paddle shifter (While driving fast) you can't drive a manual to a very high level. A manual with a clutch pedal is infinitely more enjoyable to drive FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY GOOD AT IT. I don't need a computer to rev match when I down shift. It's BS there is no full manual car. They should have it setup where you can put it in manual and use the clutch pedal and shifter or put it in auto. The technology is there. There are companys that make real shifter conversions for Ferraris. The majority of the rich guys that can afford these cars can't drive so they would look real dumb stalling thier cars at the valet. Bottom line is for 10ths of a second off lap times and sales brochures flappy paddle nonsense wins. For real driving enthusiast manual wins. If you disagree you are not fully comfortable driving stick.

Bunch of kids ≠ your driving experience.
you cant drive a manual ≠ your driving experience
People that are very good at it ≠ your driving experience
If you disagree ≠ your driving experience

You may not have bashed any one by name but you have bashed anyone who disagrees with your opinion. So please spare us the faux self righteousness indignation.

You do not know me or my driving skills. You may or may not be better. And I honestly do not care. As for your BMW story, all that proves is you are a better driver than the person driving the BMW. It proves nothing else. My guess is that if two people of equal skill were driving, your SLC would have been toast. The weight diff alone would have seen to that.

Enjoy your manual. No one here cares or begrudges you for it. I have no interest in them any more. I drive in DFW where we have traffic and manuals are a PIA. My car, as for many, is transportation to get me from A to B in as much comfort and safety as I can afford. My C250 is infinitly more safe than your SLC or my old 19E. If someone hits me, the odds of me walking away from the crash are exponentially better than yours. So, while you enjoy your stick in an antique car, the odds are that I will not be impaled by said stick in my car which has a safer passenger compartment, air bags and auto tensioning belts.

You can make any argument you want for a manual. No need to knock others for not liking them or wanting them.

rwd4evr · #10 03-03-2020, 05:03 PM

Not really bashing the people dissagreeing. Just bashing the reasons why it is a non manual car now. Go drive a camary or a Mercedes sedan , or an automatic Corvette. The manual should still absolutely be an option. I'll even say there a good chance it comes back, there is plenty of people besides myself that are actual prospective buyers not happy about it. Same with the Supra. That will have a stick I'm almost certain, they have been swapped already too. My driving experience is put out there to be on par with many people that think the same way, driving enthusiast, racers, people of that nature. Again. If driving a car yourself at a high level isn't satisfying to you (or whoever) great. Rev matching with the side of my foot while still applying the brakes smoothly going into a turn makes me happy. So does dumping the clutch and a host of other things that a new dual clutch third pedal-less car are not going to allow. Lots of people agree with that. The sultan in dubia has every supercar on the planet at his disposal. His favorites? Ferrari f40 and Maserati mc12. Manual trans, no computer interference. Pure driving,you and the car. Every time something is taken over by a machine/computer an art is lost. In 20 years no one will have a clue how to drive stick except any racing that it's still mandatory I'd guess. I'd still love to see a compromise. Put the stick and the pedal in there. Have an auto mode. That simple. I'm sure these milliseconds reacting computers can figure out if you're up or downshifting and hit the right clutch. You are all crying about how it's the right thing to let them take it away as much as I'm saying it's not.

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Skid Row Joe · #11 03-03-2020, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Not really bashing the people dissagreeing. Just bashing the reasons why it is a non manual car now. Go drive a camary or a Mercedes sedan , or an automatic Corvette. The manual should still absolutely be an option. I'll even say there a good chance it comes back, there is plenty of people besides myself that are actual prospective buyers not happy about it. Same with the Supra. That will have a stick I'm almost certain, they have been swapped already too. My driving experience is put out there to be on par with many people that think the same way, driving enthusiast, racers, people of that nature. Again. If driving a car yourself at a high level isn't satisfying to you (or whoever) great. Rev matching with the side of my foot while still applying the brakes smoothly going into a turn makes me happy. So does dumping the clutch and a host of other things that a new dual clutch third pedal-less car are not going to allow. Lots of people agree with that. The sultan in dubia has every supercar on the planet at his disposal. His favorites? Ferrari f40 and Maserati mc12. Manual trans, no computer interference. Pure driving,you and the car. Every time something is taken over by a machine/computer an art is lost. In 20 years no one will have a clue how to drive stick except any racing that it's still mandatory I'd guess. I'd still love to see a compromise. Put the stick and the pedal in there. Have an auto mode. That simple. I'm sure these milliseconds reacting computers can figure out if you're up or downshifting and hit the right clutch. You are all crying about how it's the right thing to let them take it away as much as I'm saying it's not.

So, it's a safe bet that you don't own a C7 M7 then.

P.C. · #12 03-04-2020, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

So, it's a safe bet that you don't own a C7 M7 then.

Nice car, Joe. You didn't stint on the spec!

davidmash · #13 03-03-2020, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Not really bashing the people dissagreeing. Just bashing the reasons why it is a non manual car now. Go drive a camary or a Mercedes sedan , or an automatic Corvette. The manual should still absolutely be an option. I'll even say there a good chance it comes back, there is plenty of people besides myself that are actual prospective buyers not happy about it. Same with the Supra. That will have a stick I'm almost certain, they have been swapped already too. My driving experience is put out there to be on par with many people that think the same way, driving enthusiast, racers, people of that nature. Again. If driving a car yourself at a high level isn't satisfying to you (or whoever) great. Rev matching with the side of my foot while still applying the brakes smoothly going into a turn makes me happy. So does dumping the clutch and a host of other things that a new dual clutch third pedal-less car are not going to allow. Lots of people agree with that. The sultan in dubia has every supercar on the planet at his disposal. His favorites? Ferrari f40 and Maserati mc12. Manual trans, no computer interference. Pure driving,you and the car. Every time something is taken over by a machine/computer an art is lost. In 20 years no one will have a clue how to drive stick except any racing that it's still mandatory I'd guess. I'd still love to see a compromise. Put the stick and the pedal in there. Have an auto mode. That simple. I'm sure these milliseconds reacting computers can figure out if you're up or downshifting and hit the right clutch. You are all crying about how it's the right thing to let them take it away as much as I'm saying it's not.

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Pick a team and run with it.

Nah.. you were bashing.

Quote:

If you disagree you are not fully comfortable driving stick.

If by plenty you mean a few then no, sticks will not come back. Also, the Supra will not have a manual. The only way to get it is after market.
https://www.motor1.com/news/364746/toyota-supra-getting-manual-not-factory/