Mercedes Sprinter camper conversions - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 07-21-2020, 11:14 PM

I have a client who makes pretty good money as an interior designer. I've done some good work for her, she seems to think I'm a hot item (man, have I got her fooled), pics at bottom of a couple of large planters I built for her deck at her SF loft. 10' long, 3' wide, 22" tall, not counting feet.

She suggested I get into doing van conversions. Are apparently selling like hotcakes now. Said she'd invest in it, make it happen.

Have never even ridden in a Sprinter. Looks like the 144" wheelbase is the more popular, I'm guessing the 3.0 V6 diesel is the way to go. Some good kits available for conversion, would make it quicker, making all of that stuff from scratch would be time and $$ steep.

Anybody have any great advice for me?

She already had two smaller models of this planter, we copied the style, 2x10 PT wrapped with perforated steel sheeting, rusts into a lovely patina. Here's a cool optical effect, for those easily entertained anyway:

https://youtu.be/TWLD8XFl6fk

https://youtu.be/L-CClTGNYd0

Dubyagee · #2 07-22-2020, 12:00 AM

If you can do that level of work and keep it lightweight youll do well. Aircraft interiors and limited space design is what I researched for ideas when I was messing with retired sprinters from work. These were the high top long wheelbase versions but sold them when life got in the way. I got a lot of good ideas from enclosed trailers conversions to campers as well. Including full rooftop solar (except where the AC went).

cmac2012 · #3 07-22-2020, 01:56 AM

Pretty sure I'll be exploring kits. I've seen some that look pretty good. The stuff is a good combo of lightweight and attaractive. I can fantacize about lightweight shelves, cabinets, etc. - largely aluminum frame fiberglass face with wood veneer over, but making that stuff would be something to hold off on. Who knows, if I take off with it I could explore it but got to walk before I can run.

I've been looking for used units locally, there's a commercial truck rental place near Palo Alto that also does sales, they have two Freightliner 144" wb models with 2.1 turbo diesels.

I didn't realize that Freightliner was just a rebadged Mercedes, not sure what's up with that. Seems the Mercedes star would add some cachet, I would rather go that route.

https://www.htrucks.com/sales_cargovans_detail.php?ID=15052

These 2 units are almost identical, 66k miles $36,000. This place has a really good reputation for used vehicles. Everything that matters has been checked out and/or renewed. These are refrigerated, no big, that comes out, could probably sell it, would need to remove the sepearator. I'll keep looking. Not sure how well the 2.1 diesel does. I guess the smaller motor comes with a 9 speed tranny. Would rather go with the 3.0 I think.

Here's one kit that looks pretty good:

https://www.curbed.com/2018/6/8/17427036/camper-van-for-sale-vanlife-diy-kit

This link has a lot of photos on one page from a manufacturer - not a kit - good food for thought:

https://www.businessinsider.com/vansmith-new-camper-van-mercedes-benz-sprinter-2020-5#theres-also-a-garage-space-underneath-the-bed-to-store-larger-belongings-such-as-gear-and-equipment-8

t walgamuth · #4 07-22-2020, 08:16 AM

The thoroughness of the kits will matter a lot.

My dad worked in a travel trailer factory in Elkhart In when he was young. It is different from working in a building in a couple of ways.....first you cannot use a level because the trailer is on wheels instead of a foundation. I suspect this is easily solved by leveling the chassis to start with but apparently they did not do it that way where dad worked. Second it was back when they were using plywood for the inside. Every piece had to fit together perfectly because there was no drywall mud and tape to cover mistakes.

If the kits are good I imagine it might be a pretty good gig if you are good at doing puzzles.

Having a personal relationship with your business partner might make it tricky though.

cmac2012 · #5 07-22-2020, 08:24 AM

That would be a problem. There was some heat when I first started working for her, maybe a year ago. I gathered she was separating from her hubby - they are both Indian - red dot, not bow and arrow. She's pretty cool, sort of a hottie but then I started seeing her husband around more. Cool guy. I can't cheat on a guy when I know him and like him. I think adultery is a bad idea anyway. If they were actually separated would be different. I don't know what they're doing. They seem to get along just fine. Long story, but no romance between us. Just as well. We can tell we like each other but we're going to keep it platonic.

To the other, I've done a bit of this before, not too much. You can get levels that you set at what degree you want to be level. Would be a lot of challenges. I'm more versatile than the average carpenter, used to make stringed instruments. Helps with fancy finishes.

My BiL is telling me that people are really buying these things right now in a big way. The Sprinter is much nicer to drive and park that a huge RV.

Got to strike while the iron is hot.

t walgamuth · #6 07-22-2020, 08:38 AM

The virus has boosted the market because folks don't feel safe to fly places any more.

jcyuhn · #7 07-22-2020, 09:17 AM

There are a lot of van conversion videos on YouTube that might provide ideas on the level of effort and sophistication going on out there. Mostly rambling build video series by attractive young couples, but once you sort through the fluff there should be some value.

What price point are you guys thinking? You can buy a new Winnebago Travato (B class camper van in a Ram Promaster body shell) for perhaps $90K. It includes running hot/cold water, kitchen, wet bath, ac, generator, solar, etc. Might put an upper bound on what you can get for a kit conversion and hence limit the available margin.

vwnate1 · #8 07-22-2020, 10:18 AM

Wow, this sounds interesting to me .

Be sure to ask the Ca. DMV what they think of changing the class of vehicle from commercial to house car ~ this can be done , I did it to a used VW panel truck once, it wasn't difficult, the lazy DMV clerks didn't want to do it though .

I see lots of Sprinter campers out there now so look at the current used prices too .

Angel · #9 07-22-2020, 12:12 PM

The 'camper' world intrigues me, but not in a good way.
If you are young, can earn a living from the internets - go ahead, have a good time...

...I have yet to find anyone raising children in a 'vanlife' or a 'tiny house'.

I always thought that as we (generally) got older, the more we wanted a stationary place to rest, free from drama, maybe with room to pursue hobbies.
I understand that not everyone is like this, and living with no mortage payment (do you have $90k in case for a Travata ?) has appeal, but Ive always seen the 'vanlife' scene as a 'youthful idealist' market only.

that being said - perhaps the answer is for you (cmac) to create just one - how fast does it sell ? do you have inside(?) shop space and tools to make it work ? most importantly - do you like making Vanlifes more than you enjoy your current vocation ? only by making one can you tell.

-Boring Suburban Dad

cmac2012 · #10 07-23-2020, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

The 'camper' world intrigues me, but not in a good way.
If you are young, can earn a living from the internets - go ahead, have a good time...

...I have yet to find anyone raising children in a 'vanlife' or a 'tiny house'.

I always thought that as we (generally) got older, the more we wanted a stationary place to rest, free from drama, maybe with room to pursue hobbies.
I understand that not everyone is like this, and living with no mortage payment (do you have $90k in case for a Travata ?) has appeal, but Ive always seen the 'vanlife' scene as a 'youthful idealist' market only.

that being said - perhaps the answer is for you (cmac) to create just one - how fast does it sell ? do you have inside(?) shop space and tools to make it work ? most importantly - do you like making Vanlifes more than you enjoy your current vocation ? only by making one can you tell.

-Boring Suburban Dad

There's a lot of unknowns all right. I don't get the impression that anyone is looking to raise their family in one of these. Some are going for nosebleed prices, I've read of some at nearly $300k - you supply the vehicle. Not sure what they're getting that would pull that sort of price, would be interesting to know. Picking brains on this stuff might be tough. My guess would be mega solar panels, tricked out electronics, hi-fi, classy finishs, upholstery.

I rent (and live) in a warehouse/office combo unit, I could fit one in the garage side but I have much room to park in front, you can't see my parking area from the street, would problaby just work on it outside - all my tools are right there. Probably wouldn't be my only work.

The impression I'm getting is that people of means are buying these for travel and adventure because, like Tom mentions, flying seems risky, not to mention staying in motels. A way for some independent, semi risk free seeing of the world, or hemisphere anyway.

So far it's looking like the average units, including vehicle are about $80 to $100K. I'm finding suitable used Sprinters for $35K.

I have read about restrictions on putting a house into a school bus for example. Not like the old days. That calls for some research. As for why not an RV, these will often get 20+ mpg. The large RVs what, 4 or 5 mpg? Seat of the pants figuring, over 100k miles that could be $40k less in fuel costs. And a lot easier to park and maneuver the whole time.

Angel · #11 07-23-2020, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

There's a lot of unknowns all right. I don't get the impression that anyone is looking to raise their family in one of these.

...

I rent (and live) in a warehouse/office combo unit, I could fit one in the garage side but I have much room to park in front, you can't see my parking area from the street, would problaby just work on it outside - all my tools are right there. Probably wouldn't be my only work.

...
.

Agreed on all points - I mention the family/children thing because I envision a lot of young couples buying a #vanlife and then selling it 3 years later when her belly is getting round...

I tent camp at state parks a fair amount, and talk to camper owners every chance I get- part of me wants one. However:
-Mechanical issues specific to campers
-dealers don't want to do warranty work
-people with larger campers get the runaround: "Oh, we cant fix that, that issue is with the truck chassis, you need to tow your camper (lols) to a truck repair shop"
-comparatively-horrific new-camper warranties.
-Cheap camper construction (roof leaks = common, thin walls, small rivets and stapled wood bracing)
-I guess you can finance a camper for 20 years (its not a car, its a home??) -

all of these add up to a world that looks ugly to me...
...except, I suppose, when you are sitting on a couch, in the AC, looking out a picture window at the campfire outside cooking a dutch oven meal (are we allowed to call it that anymore?), after a beautiful hike through an untouched natural area.

What little work Ive done on vehicle interiors is this: - you *really* want the vehicle inside if you can. This lets you leave the thing open/unlocked overnight (wires hanging out the door), work when its raining, no staring into a blinding sun, the ground under the vehicle is clean and smooth. Many campers have 'exterior accesories' (top mounted HVAC units, awnings, rear ladders/storage) and just being able to have one leg in and one leg out of the vehicle while working - having an indoor space to work would be high on my list.

All that being said, there clearly IS a market for high-er end custom vehicles.

Some more thoughts - for discussion - my biases should be pretty clear above, and with it my lack of real-world experience...

1) I see a manuf. called "Dometic" all over the place, I think they make HVAC and Refrigerator freezers? def. try to buy that off the shelf(?) if possible. propane-powered reefers are a thing in the camper community.

2) Decide early if you want:
2a) Propane - tanks and hoses
2b) Onboard generator, and 120v wiring throughout
2b1) if so, what gets 12v and what gets 120v ?
2c) Potable Water, Greywater and Blackwater tanks (Drink/Sink/Poop respectively). Most campers have all of these, but some #vanlife might be able to forgo the last one in favor of a chemical toilet
2c1) I usually see campers with a 'tank level detection system' - a little electronic board hidden somewhere. I always dreamed that some kind of 'sightglasss' system would be more reliable, but I lack experience in blackwater tank design

2d) "Shore Power" comes in 15A, 30A and 50A varieties - different plugs for each. a large sprinter-sized AC is gonna be between 50A and 30A
2e) Inverter - a nice way to turn 12v into 120v, but they are expensive and don't make near as much power as an IC generator or shore power. Now camperkid is plugging their microwave (Hot Pockets yo!) and tripping the inverter..

3) Im seeing more campers with a 'back porch' option - some kind of platform/space, open the outside (either by opening a hatch, or just built-in) that gives a 'back porch' vibe with rocking chairs and wood raillings. Not sure how to do this well on a sprinter but worth a look.

4) Personally Ive always loved the 'outdoor kitchens' - it keeps smoke and mess out of the inside, lots of room to move/prep. If you have an awning or some covering cooking is now a 3-season(?) activity. From what Ive seen, this is either a 'grill table' that connects to the outside of a camper and plugs into the campers propane system (see item 2a above

, OR is it a large hatch on the side or rear, that you open up to reveal a kitchen inside (stove, sink(s?) microwave(?) cabinets and cooking storage...)

again, I don't even own a camper, so take all of the above with a grain of salt, but maybe some other forum members can chime in with good comments based on what Ive written

-Boring Engineer Suburban Dad

cmac2012 · #12 07-23-2020, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Agreed on all points - I mention the family/children thing because I envision a lot of young couples buying a #vanlife and then selling it 3 years later when her belly is getting round...

I tent camp at state parks a fair amount, and talk to camper owners every chance I get- part of me wants one. However:
-Mechanical issues specific to campers
-dealers don't want to do warranty work
-people with larger campers get the runaround: "Oh, we cant fix that, that issue is with the truck chassis, you need to tow your camper (lols) to a truck repair shop"
-comparatively-horrific new-camper warranties.
-Cheap camper construction (roof leaks = common, thin walls, small rivets and stapled wood bracing)
-I guess you can finance a camper for 20 years (its not a car, its a home??) -

all of these add up to a world that looks ugly to me...
...except, I suppose, when you are sitting on a couch, in the AC, looking out a picture window at the campfire outside cooking a dutch oven meal (are we allowed to call it that anymore?), after a beautiful hike through an untouched natural area.

What little work Ive done on vehicle interiors is this: - you *really* want the vehicle inside if you can. This lets you leave the thing open/unlocked overnight (wires hanging out the door), work when its raining, no staring into a blinding sun, the ground under the vehicle is clean and smooth. Many campers have 'exterior accesories' (top mounted HVAC units, awnings, rear ladders/storage) and just being able to have one leg in and one leg out of the vehicle while working - having an indoor space to work would be high on my list.

All that being said, there clearly IS a market for high-er end custom vehicles.

Some more thoughts - for discussion - my biases should be pretty clear above, and with it my lack of real-world experience...

1) I see a manuf. called "Dometic" all over the place, I think they make HVAC and Refrigerator freezers? def. try to buy that off the shelf(?) if possible. propane-powered reefers are a thing in the camper community.

2) Decide early if you want:
2a) Propane - tanks and hoses
2b) Onboard generator, and 120v wiring throughout
2b1) if so, what gets 12v and what gets 120v ?
2c) Potable Water, Greywater and Blackwater tanks (Drink/Sink/Poop respectively). Most campers have all of these, but some #vanlife might be able to forgo the last one in favor of a chemical toilet
2c1) I usually see campers with a 'tank level detection system' - a little electronic board hidden somewhere. I always dreamed that some kind of 'sightglasss' system would be more reliable, but I lack experience in blackwater tank design

2d) "Shore Power" comes in 15A, 30A and 50A varieties - different plugs for each. a large sprinter-sized AC is gonna be between 50A and 30A
2e) Inverter - a nice way to turn 12v into 120v, but they are expensive and don't make near as much power as an IC generator or shore power. Now camperkid is plugging their microwave (Hot Pockets yo!) and tripping the inverter..

3) Im seeing more campers with a 'back porch' option - some kind of platform/space, open the outside (either by opening a hatch, or just built-in) that gives a 'back porch' vibe with rocking chairs and wood raillings. Not sure how to do this well on a sprinter but worth a look.

4) Personally Ive always loved the 'outdoor kitchens' - it keeps smoke and mess out of the inside, lots of room to move/prep. If you have an awning or some covering cooking is now a 3-season(?) activity. From what Ive seen, this is either a 'grill table' that connects to the outside of a camper and plugs into the campers propane system (see item 2a above

, OR is it a large hatch on the side or rear, that you open up to reveal a kitchen inside (stove, sink(s?) microwave(?) cabinets and cooking storage...)

again, I don't even own a camper, so take all of the above with a grain of salt, but maybe some other forum members can chime in with good comments based on what Ive written

-Boring Engineer Suburban Dad

Lot of good stuff to chew on there, I'm sure I'll come back to more of it. I had a Dometic propane fridge once. Great stuff. Totally silent. I hate refrigerator noise, especially if you're trying to sleep in a totally sound pristine place. Not sure how well solar 12V works for refrigeration anyway, seems you'd need a lot of it. OTOH, I'm seeing some of the high end firms boast of "Electric only, no propane!" I can see that some would see risk involved with propane. Plus with these, where would you put the tanks? No 'back porch' as with some of the large RVs. I know they have horizontal tanks for use in semi trailers, not sure how doable it would be to have one under on a Sprinter or the like.

The down side of the propane fridges I understand is slow recovery. IOW if you put in, say, a large pot of leftover stew or the like, it was pretty warm, could warm up everything inside until it can finally suck all the heat out. Takes a while. I think that some absorptive fridges (heat powered) have a small motor for pumping the heat transfer medium. I'm guessing not nearly as noisy as a compressor on regular refrig and it makes them more efficient and rapid. Research needed.

A lot of them I've seen online have half or more of the roof covered with PV cells.

Angel · #13 07-27-2020, 09:56 AM

I can see how everyone wants to go electric. To me, propane is too easy to find (every walmart and half of every other grocery/convenience store) and has too much energy density to ignore. And if these RV companies can stamp out propane equipped campers without them catching fire every weekend when operated by drunk rednecks (sorry campers...you know who Im talking about...) then I'm sure that Cmac's **Vehicles of Fine Repute** will have no problem making that stuff safe.
That being said, it does make carbons yo, so if you can replace propane tanks with a slide-out drawer of batteries (my .mil trucks had that - very nice to work on...), you can just sell it and customer can learn how to 'shed load' when needed. I'm pessimistic but I am sure the customers are not.

I dont know how you make an RV HVAC unit run on solar power - I dont think we can do it with current PV technology 200w/m^2 ?). Maybe the numbers work on that now...I dont know. Maybe put some PV cells on the side for extra 'visibility

Last thing Id be curious about RV rooftop solar- PV panels dont like to flex - so Im not sure what kind of rubber mounts they need, something thicker than what my old W123 air cleaner had, but Id look at what is out there, see if they 'float' on top or are just bolted fast. My impression is that RV campers/trailer have 'chassis flex' a fair amount (TW ? AmIWrong?) and while most materials can handle this (Wood, Al, wiring, propane hoses) I'd want to better-mount any PV cells - Ive seen too many in the dumpster because they were dropped (or someone landed a golf ball on one...). Im envisioning some kind of "UniStrut"-like monstrosity

, to which panels are mounted, but Im sure there are ligher-weight options out there.

I'll shut up now, I've said as much as I can for some dude who doesnt even own a camper

-Boring Controls Engineer Dad

t walgamuth · #14 07-22-2020, 01:41 PM

Well, from Carl's posts last year or so he is getting to the age where physical wear and tear of house carpentering gets to be a lot to endure. These van parts would be pretty light weight and his lifetime of carpentering savvy will be priceless.

merc lover · #15 07-22-2020, 02:01 PM

anytime you are looking at a business opportunity, best to seriously check out the competition. Airrstream, Coach House RV, Winnebago View and Dynamax Corp. Most people who are thinking "Mercedes" aren't thinking "Volkswagen grade DIY camper van".

https://www.airstream.com/touring-coaches/

https://www.coachhouserv.com/

https://www.winnebago.com/models/product/motorhomes-and-towables/motorhomes/class-c/view

https://www.dynamaxcorp.com/class-c-motorhomes/isata-3