Good news in Atlanta... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mikemover · #31 01-16-2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by el presidente
Several have. And, the only people who had guns (after the law abiding citizens turned theirs in) were the criminals and law enforcement.

and the crime rates go up, obviously!

Mike

PS Hi, pres! How's the dating scene going?

mikemover · #32 01-16-2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
Good gun control is shooting a hole in a target then firing a second shot through the same hole.

Haahaaahaa....good one!

Mike

el presidente · #33 01-16-2003, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover

PS Hi, pres! How's the dating scene going?

Mike, opportunity still knocks loudly but I am actually dating just ONE right now (since about X-mas). No complaints so far

blackmercedes · #34 01-16-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover
Legal handguns have been used THOUSANDS of times in self-defense, and have saved thousands of lives, usually without even having to fire a shot!
Mike

And in over 11,000 cases in the US, those guns were fired, and a criminal homicide was committed.

There is no evidence to support arming individuals reduces crime, violence, or murder. To the contrary, the US has high gun ownership, lax restrictions over concealable weapons, and by far and away the highest violent crime rates of of any first world nation. You talk about GB's increase in gun crime as due to their strict gun control. But, you talk in percentages. Great Britain had fewer than 100 gun related homicides in 2001. On a per capita basis, their gun crime rate is a tiny fraction of the US.

I am not anti-gun. I have owned guns, and enjoy the precision of marksmanship. But, weapons designed to do nothing more than kill people should be strictly regulated.

If there are less legal guns, then there are less guns for the criminals to steal, and then less "illegal" guns on the street.

The key to reducing gun crime is less crime in the first place, less guns, and gun laws strictly enforced. (We do...)

Cap'n Carageous · #35 01-16-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by el presidente
Mike, opportunity still knocks loudly but I am actually dating just ONE right now (since about X-mas). No complaints so far

Still trying to get your money's worth out of that Christmas present, eh??

el presidente · #36 01-16-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap'n Carageous
Still trying to get your money's worth out of that Christmas present, eh??

Maybe I'll get her a gun for Valentine's Day :p

Cap'n Carageous · #37 01-16-2003, 11:30 AM

I agree with that. Ain't no tellin how much future crime old JC prevented by 'violating' these scumbags' civil rights. Or maybe they were just deprived of the opportunities that would have put them in high regard in society, and this was the only infraction that they would ever commit! Or maybe they were gonna give old JC's money to Mother Teresa's Orhanage!! Sheeeze!!

mikemover · #38 01-16-2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackmercedes
And in over 11,000 cases in the US, those guns were fired, and a criminal homicide was committed.

Legally-owned guns, or ILLEGAL guns?

Quote:

Originally posted by blackmercedes
You talk about GB's increase in gun crime as due to their strict gun control. But, you talk in percentages. Great Britain had fewer than 100 gun related homicides in 2001. On a per capita basis, their gun crime rate is a tiny fraction of the US.

Yes, I talk in percentages, because that is the true reflection of the reality. Numbers mean something if both countries have exactly the same population, but they do not. GB has far less people than the US, so of course they have a lower NUMBER...but thier numbers AND percentages have gone UP UP UP UP UP UP UP since enacting those laws. What part of "thier crime rate has gone UP" is not making sense to you?

Mike

mikemover · #39 01-16-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cap'n Carageous
I agree with that. Ain't no tellin how much future crime old JC prevented by 'violating' these scumbags' civil rights. Or maybe they were just deprived of the opportunities that would have put them in high regard in society, and this was the only infraction that they would ever commit! Or maybe they were gonna give old JC's money to Mother Teresa's Orhanage!! Sheeeze!!

Exactly! When you kill a violent criminal, you prevent 100% of any future crimes from being committed by that criminal! Those sound like pretty good "numbers" to me, John!

Mike

el presidente · #40 01-16-2003, 12:01 PM

I'm curious as to what the response time is for law enforcement in the projects in East L.A. I've heard it can take nearly an hour in some cases.

Who will protect those victims, if they aren't allowed to protect themselves?

mikemover · #41 01-16-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by el presidente
I'm curious as to what the response time is for law enforcement in the projects in East L.A. I've heard it can take nearly an hour in some cases.

Who will protect those victims, if they aren't allowed to protect themselves?

If they are not already standing beside me, then the "response time" is too slow. I prefer to have the ability to take care of my own self-defense.

mike

el presidente · #42 01-16-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackmercedes
No, we're not. But when it comes to gun related crime, we're mid pack in a group with the US at the bottom.

Where does Switzerland fit in?

An interesting quote......

"According to the International Crime Survey (Van Dijk 1990, 1992) Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in Europe (see Clinard 1978 for a detailed discussion of why this might be). This is despite the fact that it has the highest level of gun possession in Europe (as a consequence of all fit males being required to be on call for the national defence force)."

Cap'n Carageous · #43 01-16-2003, 01:02 PM

Look at the makeup of different populations and see what you find. Japan probably has the lowest crime rate in the world, but look at it's populas. It's not a very diverse group. Neither is Switzerland. I don't know what the diversity numbers are for Britain, but i'll bet they're nowhere near what the US is. Even Canada is low in diversity compared to us. Bottom line is that if there is more of a criminal element in a society, then there will be more crime. Look at who commits the highest percentage of crimes in any country and I think you'll see that countries with a larger lower, sorry, I meant deprived, class commit most of the crimes.

el presidente · #44 01-16-2003, 01:11 PM

This argument appears reasonable.....

http://www.nra.org/frame.cfm?title=NRA%20Institute%20for%20Legislative%20Action&url=http://www.nraila.org

.....all source information is quoted at the bottom.

blackmercedes · #45 01-16-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover
Legally-owned guns, or ILLEGAL guns?

Yes, I talk in percentages, because that is the true reflection of the reality. Numbers mean something if both countries have exactly the same population, but they do not. GB has far less people than the US, so of course they have a lower NUMBER...but thier numbers AND percentages have gone UP UP UP UP UP UP UP since enacting those laws. What part of "thier crime rate has gone UP" is not making sense to you?

Mike

What are "illegal" guns? Does Ruger make two sets of handguns? The legal kind and the illegal kind? Guns start out being legal, and somehow become illegal. They are stolen from their legal owners.

GB has a smaller population, and that is why we need to look at PER CAPITA statistics. GB's population is near 100 Million, more than a third of the US. Canada's is 30 Million, about 12% of the US. In GB, they have less than 100 gun related homicides each year. Now, that's SLIGHTLY less than the 11,000+ that you have in the US. On a PER CAPITA basis, it's a tiny fraction.

How can you relate the increase in gun crime in GB to gun control? They have had strict gun control for decades, and suddenly the gun control leads to increased crime? Huh? What is the causal effect?

What part of PER CAPITA do you not understand?

The US has the most guns, the least gun control, the most police, the harshest sentences, the biggest prisons and the most violent crime. Sure, seems to be working. What part of the MOST CRIME do you not understand?