Restoration Questions - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

placo1 · #1 01-18-2003, 03:47 PM

I know this has been discussed in other threads but I was hoping to get some details regarding how to properly restore an automobile.

My goal is to bring the car to as close to new condition WITHOUT DEVALUING the car. In other words if a body panel has a small chip or ding, I wouldn't replace it or paint it due to originality.

But what about the following:

1. When a minor part of the car (Such as a door sill, rubber brake/gas pedals etc.) is worn do you:
A) Replace it with a new part as long as parts are available.
B) Leave it as is.
C) Try to repair it.

2. If the seats have wear on them do you
A) Replace the covers and padding?
B) Do your best to revive them?

3. When replacing components in the engine such as tubing, ductwork etc do you
A) Replace it with an OEM updated better part?
B) Replace it with the original part even though it's not as good?

Answer these questions without considering the cost involved. I'm really trying to find out the "proper procedures" rather than save money.

I know a bunch of you have some very classich MB's and would love to hear your experiences as well.

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.

drbrandini · #2 01-18-2003, 09:34 PM

To keep it authentic use only OEM parts and replace all worn parts, materials etc.

placo1 · #3 01-20-2003, 04:06 PM

When doing a true restoration do you try and get the original parts or is it ok to install the updated/upgraded parts?

A good example would be the air intake hoses for the car. It appears that on older models the air intake is completely foam insulated. On the newer models half of the tube is plastic and the balance is foam.

Any thoughts? Anyone out there currently restoring a car that has studied the proper procedures?

G-Benz · #4 01-20-2003, 04:55 PM

I can share some experiences that I gathered from other car show entrants during my show days...

"Unrestored" is only of value for an extremely rare car or one with exceptional historical value (i.e., Hitler's Mercedes). For most cars, the value difference is miniscule.

When restoring, OEM is the absolute route, but if a part is unavailable, then places that supply "reproductions" is the next option. Those are parts that have the look and feel (and quality) of OEM but not OEM since it is no longer available through the original manufacturer.

Most of the folks I talked with were restoring classic GM cars, and in many cases, the reproductions were superior to the OEM (no surprise there). Judges know this, and can spot parts that are original versus "repros".

Consider that if you are particularly concerned about items that are subject to normal wear, to remove the original part and store it someplace and replace the part with one of equivalent quality, but not as rare. Then, when selling the car, you can replace those part(s) with the originals.

Understand that restorations can get kinda nit-picky! All serial numbers on the car must match, so swapping out the block or tranny is a no-no. Hope you don't detonate your engine or melt the tranny, otherwise the value goes down!

When restoring, all bolts, clamps and assorted hardwware must match the factory. Using a phillips screw where an allen head formerly resided is a resto "faux pas".

Decals, stickers, and labels are an important part of restoring the vehicle. Smog info, AC info, warning labels, the "sig" decal on the windshield, are all part of the mix. The battery of course, should be OEM.

As you peruse the vehicle, take note of deliberate paint markings on bolts, components, frame and body parts. These are inspection markings done at the factory when the inspector certified that a bolt was properly torqued, a control arm was properly aligned, or a component was correctly connected. If you have to replace a component, document where the marking where located (including the color of the paint) so that you can duplicate with the new part.

If body or paint damage requires attention, the car will not lose value unless the application of the repair is less than superior. In other words, no overspray, correct paint compound and finish. If the fender cowling was a satin finish, resist the temptation to use glossy. If the valve cover was cast aluminum, don't get it polished!

I did see a 280SL with nearly every engine component polished to a diamond luster and it got lots of attention at shows! It was still a valuable car because of its rarity and condition, but a car of equal quality with correct detail would have fetched more.

Finally, decide what you really want to do with your car. If you really want to enjoy it, you have to drive it, and unfortunately with that comes the risk of damage.

I've met many who sold primo examples of their marque, and most were unhappy because they had put so much effort into their restoration that they were afraid to drive them! So they would turn around and search for a less-pristine example so that they could enjoy driving it as well...

placo1 · #5 01-20-2003, 05:09 PM

G-Benz,

Thank you for that detailed response, did you walk the shows or did you actually show a vehicle? Your details make me think you actually showed a vehicle.

Regarding your last comment about not driving the vehicle. My goal isn't to restore my car and turn it into a garage queen, rather it is more of a weekend toy and I just want to get it as close to new as possible.

I always wondered about the red paint used on the screws in the engine bay and some other areas of the car. I'm glad you mentioned this, I would have never thought of it.

You mentioned not changing a philips screw to a allen screw, a problem that I have been noticing with Mercedes is changes in screw types. I've ordered parts from the dealership several times and the new parts come with different screws. Luckily I've retained the original screws but in some cases I wish I could find a new duplicate. When I've approached the dealership about this they state that this is the new part according to the CD and nothing else is available. Any ideas how I can find the right parts?

G-Benz · #6 01-20-2003, 05:30 PM

Actually, I went to shows AND showed. Went to shows for ideas and tips prior to preparation for competing in my own events.

Sometimes you run into things you can't control...such as the manufacturer "replacing" original parts with something of an entirely different design. You may have to change parts sources to achieve your goal. You will find that things like hose clamps are the first to get retooled, so do as you are doing now and save the old fasteners if they are not compromised.

For instance, VW produces the VW in Mexico and Brazil, and I can spot the Brazilian & Mexican "knock-offs" a mile away. So I try as best I can to get German whenever possible, even though it can cost up to three times what the others go for.

Find other 500E afficiandos like yourself, and they will direct you to links that you can educate yourself about your particular vehicle (i.e., history, manufacturing processes, parts changes, model year mods, etc.)

It takes time and dedication to get this fanatical, but I've seen it done. I knew I guy who was restoring his GM car and got his subframe back from the powdercoaters. He then took a knife, and went to a spot on the frame and began defacing it!

I asked him why he would want to deliberately ruin his restoration!!!? He explained that there was a problem with the subframe jig that GM used in the assembly...when the frames would come off the jig, it would scratch the frame at a particular spot...so he wanted his restoration to look as accurate as possible!!!

Now that's being a fanatic!

Note the orientation of parts as well. I've seen stickers placed upside-down where the owner would exclaim that at some point, there was a lot of vehicles produced where the moron put the labels on wrong. And to be "correct", the restoration would have to reflect the same!

So you really could go insane with this!

Consider yourself lucky that you are restoring a post-war MB. I would guess MB documentation on pre-WW2 models would be pretty scarce!

placo1 · #7 01-20-2003, 06:04 PM

I can certainly see how this can become a frustrating task. I guess this is more of a hobby for me so it doesn't drive me nuts but there are certain things that have happened that definitely didn't go as planned.

For example last year I needed to replace my windshield due to a chip, the insurance company had no problem covering their share of the replacement cost which is great. Later I insisted that the glass be replaced with OEM Mercedes glass and not aftermarket, the installer talked to insurance company and it was approved. Well the glass was OEM Mercedes with the MB Emblem but it said PPG on it!! I couldn't believe it and it was too late for me to say anything. So now I have this American made glass rather than the original Sigla Glass......ARGH

Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it. I'll start searching for a new supplier, hopefully with better luck.

G-Benz · #8 01-21-2003, 11:15 AM

P.S. OEM battery on the SL died this weekend (8 years old, not too bad).

Wasn't about to do the "purist" thing and shell out $300+ for a replacement OEM!

Got hooked up at Interstate Batteries for $130...back on the road and money left in my pocket (not really)...

But truthfully, what is valued most in a "classic" car is the number of options (especially those that were deemed rare for a particular model), the original large displacement engine and drivetrain, and good overall condition.

A true hobbyist doesn't sweat the details as long as the major stuff is there. When the purchase is made, then the hunt is on.

We did just that with my Dad's 69 Corvette. The P.O. did all sorts of strange stuff (big block hood, small block engine, shaved emblems, incorrect tires, etc.) We cruised shows and swap meets and eventually gathered enough correct parts to undo the carnage of the former owner...