Andy Rooney Talks About France - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

blackmercedes · #16 02-25-2003, 01:24 PM

France obviously has their own agenda, and it clashes with the US. This makes them "wrong" or different? Hey, they're grown ups. If their country is occupied by Iraq crashing it's way through Europe, then they have themselves to blame.

This "war" is about economic might, and the US is stepping on France's toes in Iraq. How would the US react if it were the other way around?

BENZ-LGB · #17 02-25-2003, 02:23 PM

...you guys are my personal heroes. Your comments regarding Snibbles' reactions to Andy Rooney's piece are right on target.

Snibble reflects the thinking of many people from his generation and it shows a lack of appreciation for the sacrifices that others have made in order for his generation, and my kids' generation, to live in peace. It also shows a lack of understanding on what it takes to keep the world safe from madmen like Hussein.

If I read another comment about this impending war being about economic "might" I "might" just blow a gasket. The U.S. is doing just fine, globally, w/o the need for a war with Iraq. Economically, there is nothing to gain from a war with Iraq and much to lose. Like I wrote before, if we want cheap oil, cheaply, we can just invade Mexico or Canada, or both.

I am speaking tongue in cheek, of course. But if economic hegemony was our goal, we could achieve that, faster and cheaper by taking someone's else oil.

As was pointed out by others here, we had to pull France's butt out of the fire because of their government's policy of appeasement. After WWII we devoted billions of AMERICAN dollars keeping the French safe from Communism. I mean, think about it, imagine if I was so willy-nilly, and weak, that I needed my neighbor's help to protect me from getting my house ransacked. And then, after my neighbor helps me, I cop an attitude and refuse to help him when he needs me. That's what the French, and the German, are doing.

Initially the Brits were also all for appeasement, but once Churchill was eleceted, things changed in a hurry. And now they are with us, come hell or high water. Right on to Tony Blair.

I spent this last weekend in Sedona. There were peace demonstrators gathered in a corner, waving anti-war signs. My daughter asked me how I felt about the demonstrations. I told her that I felt blessed to live in a country where people have the right to demonstrate and petition their government. I also told her that I was grateful that there men and women who came before me who were willing to sign on the dotted line and sometimes pay with their own blood, so that I could live in such a free democracy.

I owe the French nothing. They owe the American people an eternal debt of gratitude.

The hell with their government. The hell with their stinky cheese.

Snibble · #18 02-25-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BENZ-LGB
Snibble reflects the thinking of many people from his generation and it shows a lack of appreciation for the sacrifices that others have made in order for his generation, and my kids' generation, to live in peace.

Thats right, you know a lot about me just by reading that I am a university student. So its right for you to make your assumption. You might as well sterotype everything else. This Generation which you're saying is lacking appreciation is the same generation that are being sent off to fight in the front line. Go figure!

People like this just piss me off sometimes...

Snibble · #19 02-25-2003, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TANK
"I have admiration and respect for anyone who has served in any service where they put their lives at risk."-snib

Your actions sure don't show it. This statement is extremely general and shows no patriotism what-so-ever.
---
sence in spelled "SENSE." Just FYI, you've mis-spelled it several times and I wanted to point this out to you.
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"Due to this, I have seen some good forum members decide to leave because they couldn't handle the crap that was tossed around on the open forum"-snib

If they can't stand responses to their own posts or discussion, they shouldn't even get involved! Instead what do you do? Cry like babys and report and baby tattle to a moderator. Give me a break!! Stop trying to limit other's freedoms of speech on this forum just because you can't handle normal debate. Don't be so sensitive.
---

"I think I should be just like you and infest my mind with some more half-BS to total BS stories and facts on Fox and CNN."-snib

Name 1 bs story. Mike is Mr Fact above all else, please if you are going to debate, have a valid point.
----

"If their country is occupied by Iraq crashing it's way through Europe, then they have themselves to blame."-Blackmercedes

I agree with part of this, however, we all know France will not be "invaded by Iraq." Come on, we are talking about a HIGHLY potential black-market/underground-"store"-as in open for business - channel of mean/nasty/evil weapons. Since 9/11 we as a country are or should be committed to stomping terrorists-networks/factories/stores or anything related. We as Americans (unlike many other nations) are not going to stand for it!

Tank.. I am not going to bother spending much time responding. I will just say that your character on this board is not liked by many.

#20 02-25-2003, 05:20 PM

Hmm...well they were "liberated" by the Soviets only to have puppet "communist" governments installed in their place. Eastern Europe has suffered much more than France, lost more people in warfare arguably than anywhere else. Hell, the Polish had an army like 1/90th the size of that in France and held out roughly the same time with horses and bolt action rifles...and shear courage. After the war...they sat in "Communist" stagnation until the US "won" the cold war to help liberate them. Now at least they show gratitude by supporting us and allowing us to use their bases. The Germans are almost as bad as the French, we rebuild half of their country (IE Marshall Plan) and help to reunite them under one flag, and they still throw their freedom in our faces. At least the Germans aren't cowards though. F*ck France, they have gotten in every war, and couldn't get out. Vietnam, WWII, WWI, etc. Their only good leader who wasn't a total lacky was Napoleon, and he was Corsican! Their most dignified unit is the French Foreign Legion. And don't bring up them helping us the the Revolutionary war, as one hand has been washing the other many more times. No grattidue, only attitude! (poor attempt at rhyme

) Flame time....

#21 02-25-2003, 06:07 PM

Last night I worked on Frank Luntz's show that appears on MSNBC. He had a studio full of college students and the topic was whether or not to enter into war with Iraq.

One girl made the point that she felt that no one should have to fight if they didn't believe in the reason for the war.

I wanted nothing more than to SMACK the cr#p out of her! If my country called on me to serve, I'd go. Period. The only reason why I've got the opportunity to CHOOSE whether to be for or against the war is because of those many brave patriots that laid down there lives for my freedom.

These kids don't have a clue what it's like to live in a society/world where your basic liberties are kept from you. [And the reason for this is because of those who died in our wars.] I think many of them get caught up in the "opinion of the moment" that's popular on campus and just go with it. Having an opinion is a good thing, just research the HISTORY of things first, then decide.

#22 02-25-2003, 06:53 PM

lost SA, lost India, lost Hong Kong, lost all their colonies. They aren't catty...

mikemover · #23 02-25-2003, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snibble
Tank.. I am not going to bother spending much time responding. I will just say that your character on this board is not liked by many.

Who cares? We're not debating this issue so that "people will like us"...This isn't high school...

The RIGHT thing to do is often NOT the POPULAR thing to do.

Mike

BENZ-LGB · #24 02-25-2003, 08:25 PM

Snibbles wrote:

"Thats right, you know a lot about me just by reading that I am a university student. So its right for you to make your assumption. You might as well sterotype everything else. This Generation which you're saying is lacking appreciation is the same generation that are being sent off to fight in the front line. Go figure!

People like this just piss me off sometimes..."

I am not stereotyping you based soley upon your status as a university student. Hell, I once was a university student too. I am able to recognize that not all college students are cut from the same mold. (Of course, the fact that you don't like USC already tells me a lot about you--just kidding dude...have a sense of humor).

What I am doing is judging you based upon your posts on this thread and your responses to those who have commented on your posts. And, to some degree, I am also judging you on the comments other have made about you. Not having personally met you, this is the best that I can do.

Incidentally your generation is NOT BEING sent to the front line. My generation was the last generation that was forced to go to war. Members of your Genration have THE OPTION to fight or not fight. I don't see you joining the Army, so you are NOT beig sent anywhere that you don't want to go to. So go figure!

And please, don't let anyone start saying that only blacks or other minorities go the front lines. After House member Chuckles Rangel made that stupid claim, the Dept. of Defense released statistics that show that frontline soldiers are drawn, in equal proportion to their respective percentage in the general population. So go figure.

Finally, if I piss you off only sometimes, then I've failed. My goal is to challenge people to think ALL the time and if I piss them off i the process, I consider that to be a bonus. I've found out that nothing focus one's intellectual powers better than being REALLY pissed off.

#25 02-25-2003, 08:40 PM

While I agree somewhat with this article, Andy Rooney forgets that our country's own liberation from England was aided in large by France during our struggle for independence. Where did the statue of liberty come from, our most sacred symbol of freedom to whom our parents and grandparents may have viewed with hope as their ships cruise into New York harbor?

It is purely an "ecopolitical" decision on France's part not to support the war. They may not benefit much from the war while our oil hungry country will. Why Iraq??? Didn't we support Iraq not too long away in the Iraq/Iran war of the 1990's? What has changed?? Why r we not sending 200,000 troops to South Korea to demand that North Korea disarm and destroy their nuclear weapons???

BECAUSE Iraq is easier to bully and public support against "terrorism" is much easier to get. Bush is a politician..and rightfully so, he will do what is easiest to win support and votes!! Where is Bin Laden? What the hell is going with our budget deficit all of a sudden? Who is addressing that? Maybe the next president will...

mikemover · #26 02-25-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BENZ-LGB

Finally, if I piss you off only sometimes, then I've failed. My goal is to challenge people to think ALL the time and if I piss them off i the process, I consider that to be a bonus. I've found out that nothing focus one's intellectual powers better than being REALLY pissed off.

EXCELLENT quote, bro! I love it!

My feelings exactly...When things like this pi$$ people off, it's because you hit really close to home, or you made them realize how WRONG they are!

Mike

#27 02-25-2003, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wotan

It is purely an "ecopolitical" decision on France's part not to support the war. They may not benefit much from the war while our oil hungry country will. Why Iraq??? Didn't we support Iraq not too long away in the Iraq/Iran war of the 1990's? What has changed?? Why r we not sending 200,000 troops to South Korea to demand that North Korea disarm and destroy their nuclear weapons???

BECAUSE Iraq is easier to bully and public support against "terrorism" is much easier to get. Bush is a politician..and rightfully so, he will do what is easiest to win support and votes!! Where is Bin Laden? What the hell is going with our budget deficit all of a sudden? Who is addressing that? Maybe the next president will...

I am going to answer your questions!

Quote:

Why Iraq??? Didn't we support Iraq not too long away in the Iraq/Iran war of the 1990's? What has changed??

A new administration that's what where were you when 438 missiles were fired at Iraq in 1998, when the UN was ignored when we bombed Bosnia?

If Europe has such great leaders how come their stock exchange is at 6 year low's? Maybe Bin Laden is in Iraq we know some of his cronies are harbored there.

As far as the deficit goes last time I checked we are at war heavy expenditures are needed to protect the homeland NOW as well as paying for operations outside the US. Once the war is won markets will climb and you will have a surplus.

suginami · #28 02-25-2003, 08:57 PM

Man, this is a good thread. I've enjoyed reading it.

I hate it when the sacrifices of our fathers / grandfathers / uncles, etc. are pushed aside.

My grandfather and two of his brothers fought in WWII. My grandfather was the only one to survive. He fought in the Pacific Theater and went island hopping all the way to Okinawa. Virtually everyone that he knew in the war was killed. It's a miracle my grandfather survived. One brother died in France after Normandy. The other brother was also in the Pacific Theater and was a POW in the Phillipines. He had emotional scars that he never really recovered from.

Quote:

Originally posted by wotan
While I agree somewhat with this article, Andy Rooney forgets that our country's own liberation from England was aided in large by France during our struggle for independence.

It is purely an "ecopolitical" decision on France's part not to support the war. They may not benefit much from the war while our oil hungry country will. Why Iraq??? Didn't we support Iraq not too long away in the Iraq/Iran war of the 1990's? What has changed?? Why r we not sending 200,000 troops to South Korea to demand that North Korea disarm and destroy their nuclear weapons???

BECAUSE Iraq is easier to bully and public support against "terrorism" is much easier to get. Bush is a politician..and rightfully so, he will do what is easiest to win support and votes!! Where is Bin Laden? What the hell is going with our budget deficit all of a sudden? Who is addressing that? Maybe the next president will...

My only comments on the above is that France treated America with contempt before and after our founding. Believe me, their motivations weren't altruistic. They only sided with America as a leverage against Britain.

I know one can question the motivation of President Bush. I know those on the left and Europeans in general loathe him.

But I really believe President Bush is motivated by his sense of right and wrong. I think there are more potential problems with going to Iraq than potential rewards.

leathermang · #29 02-25-2003, 10:27 PM

Lets try to keep this on facts and philosophies... don't want a good thread sent to the 'dead' file or what ever they call it ...

On the subject of polling the people... At the start of WW2 , which I think everyone agrees was a rightous action on our part... The anti WAR and Isolationists were so powerful that FDR had to break the law in order to start helping England...

One case in point.... Congress passed a law which said no American aircraft could be flown from the US to Europe for the purpose of war....

SO.... there happens to be a field on the border of Canada and the US.... which was owned by one farmer... and had land on both sides of the border... They would fly the planes and land them on the US side... turn off the engines... and push them across the border... and fly them to England...

Remember , half the population walking around has an IQ of less than 100.... but they still allow them to vote....

Some things need to be decided on principals learned from the past and done because it is in our best interests...and the interests of democracy....

I heard someone say lately that no democracy had ever initiated a first attack on another country.... Anyone have any examples of exceptions to that rule... in the last 1000 years ?

#30 02-25-2003, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wotan
Why r we not sending 200,000 troops to South Korea to demand that North Korea disarm and destroy their nuclear weapons???

Because as a nation we try to work with others through every means possible before having to declare war. The problem with North Korea is a new one; we'll try through diplomatic means to solve it. The problem with Iraq has been ongoing now for twelve years. Those diplomatic means have been exhausted. Time's up. War is the last and only effective solution to this tyrant.