Saddam's human shredding machines - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BENZ-LGB · #31 03-19-2003, 12:02 AM

I started the thread. So technically I believe that I can close the thread, thereby getting in the last word.

DieselHead · #32 03-19-2003, 12:06 AM

Well, I have shown that RS's comments about my "as if it's their choice..." quote are wrong, I've showed that Spock's accusation about me disagreeing to disagree are wrong, and LGB is really getting his kicks proving his meager point about getting last words in. So, I'll acquiesce. Let's bomb the mother-f&ckers tomorrow morning, first light.

Close it and get your last word in. You've already driven away all the people who don't agree with the popular opinion (in this forum), so if you want me to stop arguing, it'll be awfully dry conversation with everyone agreeing with each other.

BENZ-LGB · #33 03-19-2003, 12:20 AM

DH writes:

So, I'll acquiesce. Let's bomb the mother-f&ckers tomorrow morning, first light.
===================================================

I think that bombing will start Thursday, at 4:00 a.m., Baghdad time.

DH further writes:

Close it and get your last word in. You've already driven away all the people who don't agree with the popular opinion (in this forum), so if you want me to stop arguing, it'll be awfully dry conversation with everyone agreeing with each other.

==================================================

I never realized that I had such power (to drive opposition). I don't think that Mike, Bill, Rsbiomedical and myself are against spirited debate. One thing is to debate using facts, it is quite another to mouth-off the usual liberal prattle.

As far as the war is concerned, the time for debating is done. Now is the time to take action.

DieselHead · #34 03-19-2003, 12:21 AM

Is liberal prattle anything you disagree with? You're saying my concerns about the post war, the Kurds, Iranians, North Koreans, rebuilding costs, are all irrelevant? Bringing up issues is liberal prattle. You're more than willing to debate with people who align with what you believe.

Ok, let the war begin.

#35 03-19-2003, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DieselHead
Let's deconstruct this. Once they are enlisted, or become officers (my best friend just graduated from the USNA), they pledge to do what they are told to the best of their abilities. Correct? Service men/women don't have a choice, they can't just lay down their arms and say they don't want to. Correct? So what was it I said that was so wrong? Or, did you read in to it and get out of it something that wasn't really intended. Eleven words, nothing incorrect or anything that can be mis-construed. Stop searching for things to nitpick about. Hey, if I'm wrong, if those 11 words say something else, please, let me know.

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY SIGN UP IN THE FIRST PLACE, OH MY GOD!!!!

I GUESS ONLY SOMEONE WITH NO SENSE OF DUTY CANNOT FATHOM THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE YEARN TO SERVE THIER COUNTRY.

Congratulations on insulting every American soldier in history.

#36 03-19-2003, 07:58 AM

It's been 35 years since I took my oath upon entering the US Army. That said, as I remember, I did not pledge to "do what I was told," I pledged to defend my country.

BTW, I was going through the laundry last night and thought I had found a French flag. I finally figured out that it was a white bedsheet.

Have a great day,

BENZ-LGB · #37 03-19-2003, 07:58 AM

DH asks:

Is liberal prattle anything you disagree with?

=================================================

Actually no. I disagree with people who I would not consider, by any stretch of the imagination, to be liberals. I am just an ornery libertarian and an indepednet thinker. I dislike the positions f both sides of the political spectrum. I find them to be both intellectually suspect and spiritually suffocating.

I do find your constant hand-wringing about what will happen IF (fill in the blanks) to be liberal prattle.

Look, you call yourself an academic and have indicated that you want to go straight into "teaching" law. I, on the other hand chose to be a working, trial lawyer. Leaving aside the old saw about "those who can't, teach; and those who can, do" your future choice and my choice speak volumes about our personalities (I won't say characters).

You are apparently more comfortable sitting in a room, raising obstacles in the guise of being "concerned." I, on the other hand, am more comfortable taking action. I am a "doer" you're a "worrier."

Let's leave it at that.

DieselHead · #38 03-19-2003, 09:26 AM

RS,
I realize that some people yearn to serve their country. I live off on the Long Island Sound and am a member of the Larchmont Yacht Club with my friend who went to the USNA. When he was six, he saw the fleet week ships sail by as he was standing on the loading docks and from then on, knew that he wanted to be in the Navy. He worked hard, achieved his goals, and is now training to be a fighter pilot. You're still reading things in to my 11 words. People who sign up to serve their country sign up to serve it in peace and in war. My point is that war is not their choice. They're not the ones who decide when we go to war and how. They are there to serve their country by pledging to serve their presdent. So yeah, they volunteer to sacrifice and serve the citizens, but in doing so, they obey orders. What I said, now and before is very reasonable is it not?

LGB,
That's great that you're a doer, and still, you don't read, I probably WON'T go straight to teaching as I have mentioned, partly on the encouragement of you, and others. You're a doer but I guess that means that you're not a planner. My what-if questions are meant to bring up issues regarding the post-war. They're meant to aid in the planning, they're meant to help us be prepared. It's the same as worrying about the future of your family. Don't you worry about the what-ifs? What if you son breaks his leg? Don't you worry about saving up enough money? Don't you worry about your kids being able to go to college? It's the same thing. It's not raising questions to be obstructionist, it's raising questions to be prepared.

#39 03-19-2003, 10:37 AM

DH

You still don't get it do you?

Totally unreal how disconnected a person can be

DieselHead · #40 03-19-2003, 10:46 AM

Ok, I'd like to see someone else chime in on this one. And by the way, if it is true that I'm not getting the meaning of what you're saying, maybe you should expound on it better. May be better than just saying "you don't get it," "you're too young," "that's just liberal talk," "this isn't worth explaining." You haven't really explained, you respond in short answers, half of which just take shots at me. Maybe it would be more effective of an argument if you illustrated EXACTLY what I said above that's so wrong and that offends your sensibilities so much. I explain what I say, you could have the courtesy to do the same. You're trying to find ways to reinforce your belief that you think I'm disconnected by finding false connections. If I am really so disconnected, you could surely tell me why (with regards to the above entries, that is what we're discussing right?).

I'll address what you come up with in a few days when I come back. In other words, I'm not backing down, but would you have expected me to?

Funny thing is, I agree with most of you on the larger points, but everyone still persists on being so critical and abrasive.

#41 03-19-2003, 11:05 AM

What I am saying is that people choose to serve their country simply to serve that’s it.

They make up every type of person from every walk of life. My family is upper class but yet all of my parents children choose to serve, all are college grads as well. Soldiers, sailors, marines, guardsman, and airman come from all walks of life but all have one thing in common, DUTY HONOR COUNTRY.

A person does serve to defend their country not because they want to fly jets or command big ships, those are just perks.

Some people have a sense of honor and duty to the flag that fly’s over their head.

It seems to be difficult for you to grasp the fact that people choose to serve just for the sake of serving their country. I really do feel sorry for you, love of my country and serving my country are amongst the greatest joys I've ever had.

DieselHead · #42 03-19-2003, 11:15 AM

I said that people choose to serve their country in peace and in war, and I illustrated an example of someone close to me who did it voluntarily, to do their duty, and they will probably stay in it for career. I don't really understand how my comments counter yours. Maybe someone can clarify. Doing their duty, being honorable, and serving their country means carrying out their orders to the very best of their abilities. Again, they cannot just throw down their arms and walk away, that is part of doing their duty. That is exactly what I said in those 11 words. You still haven't told me how that is wrong?

People can express patriotism, and can do their part by participating in things other than military service too. I hope you're not of the type who believes that if someone doesn't do military service, they are not real patriots, they don't really love their country.

My grandfather escaped China (before 1949, you know what that was), came to the United States and IMMEDIATELY enlisted in the army to do his part BOTH for this country which had accepted him, AND for China, to combat the atrocities of the Japanese. He was one of the FIRST Chinese to make it above private (to corporal I believe) and he never regretted his choices. The US government and military has treated us VERY well by providing health care and aid to his widowed wife. An officer showed up at his funeral in Chinatown to present a flag that was properly retired and now sits in my grandmother's small apartment below a portrait of him in his uniform, and above the ceremonial incense.

DO NOT presuppose anything.

DieselHead · #43 03-19-2003, 11:18 AM

narwhal,
Thanks, equally sharp, but more tempered and presented in a much better way. So what I am to understand is that I should stay out of all discussion until I'm 40 and have bitter working experience. The original questions I raised about post war Iraq have NOTHING to do with life experience. Questions about the Kurds and the Turks would not have been different if I were someone in the working force. The yacht club was to provide the context in which my friend was inspired. Unless there's something wrong with belonging to a yacht club. I'll stop disagreeing because I'm not 40.

BENZ-LGB · #44 03-19-2003, 01:18 PM

W126:

That was the funniest piece of writing that I've seen in a long time. I'll never be able to see the word "prattle" and NOT laugh. Good job!

Narwhal:

DH will never recognize your credentials unless you've attended some high faluting school. Otherwise you are just an American "simpleton." Of course, DH has also referred to President Bush as a dim bulb and he attended some pretty darned fancy schools. so maybe you have to "think" like DH AND you have to attend schools on his list of approved schools before he takes you seriously.

Just a thought.

jeffwolinski · #45 03-19-2003, 04:39 PM

I'm pretty damn conservative and in favor of action against Iraq, but you guys may be taking it to poor DieselHead a little too much. You have to admit, that however limited his life experiences are, he is well-read and at least can write coherently.

Sure, he does resort to insulting language or liberal propaganda at times, but he is a much better debater than most of the liberal pinheads out there! He certainly knows how to crank us up; I personally believe that he will be a rabid conservative in 5-10 years - I think he's already on his way.