Why didn't German labor unions undermine the quality of Mercedes, Porsche, VW etc?

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Have you checked the quality ratings of German products lately? At least at the high end, the German engineering superiority is taking quite the beating.

That's a pretty extreme opinion. There is another side to the destruction of the British car industry, as you ought to know..that of management sending out cars they knew to be faulty so the dealers could sort them out later, for example. A relative of mine worked for British Leyland - he found that their machine tools were so worn the couldn't even be calibrated - hence poor quality output. This was down squarely to zero investment and bad management.

Margaret Thatcher? Oh come on..and anyway, you have Tony Blair now, not much difference, bit glossier perhaps!

Hey guys, if Bush looses the next election whach out. we may all be riding bycycles like the more advanced nations. China and Korea come to mind. Our simple philosopy is that every persson gets to choose and keep what he owns. Read the Magna Carter, which our constitution is partly based on. Regarding a more emotional issue, gun control will be the first step downward. Everyone who owns a gun does not shoot other people. And in a free society we all have choices.

That's right on gun control. Here in the UK, the only people who have guns are the criminals! We law-abiding folk aren't allowed them anymore, and Lord help us if we use them to protect our person or property and at the same time do the wider community a favour.

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JJ Rodger
2013 G350 Bluetec
1999 SL 500
1993 E300 diesel T
1990 190

Starting in the '50s and continuing up to the present German (and French) workforces were heavily populated by "guest labor" from Algeria, Turkey, and many largely Muslim countries. One reason for this was the huge loss of population each European country suffered in the two world wars. A positive aspect to this was that the guest workers could be instilled with a work ethic which resulted in say, the legendary quality of products like the early VW beetle. The UK has had much emigration from former colonial outposts in the Carribean and indo/pakistan, but the skill-sets along with UK's dwindling industrial base haven't boded well for successful rebirth or a return to a standard of quality products.

You guys have some valid points about Brit sports cars. A few years ago I was looking for a "project" car. I looked at MGB, Midget, Triumph, Etc. & found that if it was cheap enough for me, it needed big bucks spent on bodywork i.e. it was rusty heap. In UK, there are a fair number of kit cars on the road. Most were still beyond my reach, but after a search I found a Dutton, square steel tube chassis & glassfibre & aluminium body. I bought a non runner for £500 & spent 4 months getting it road legal etc. You US guys will know the engine, its a 4cyl. Ford Pinto 2ltr, coupled to a Ford 5spd box from a Ford Sierra (dont know what you call a Sierra). I had it for about 5yrs, gradually developing it into a fairly fast but totally impractical road rocket. I found that I only used it with the top down, & then only for short journeys. The best fun Ive ever had in My life. Unreliable? I completely rebuilt it, so any problems were my own making. Its not as nice as a Lotus 7, but it didnt cost that much. I sold it for £1.000


Hope you enjoy the picture !

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I worked with a man who worked on a Detriot auto assembly line for a couple of years. He said they'd have a blast smoking Thai stick during breaks and stump it out inside of door frames before installing panels.

Lack of personal motivation and poor supervision, regardless of unions affiliation, is the biggest problem. A union can cover it a bit, but it takes willful negligence on the part of coworkers and foremen to institutionalize bad performance. It takes a heck of a long time to root it out, too.

Detroit cars seem to be improving. Is that due to a change in attitude or a change in process?

Botnst

robot and computer-run assembly lines. Manufacturing headed toward more automation and fewer workers.

I was listeneing to a radio programme the other day (during my weekly 700 mile drive - don't ask!) discussing the emergence of the Japanese car industry. The key point was their introduction of 'stop the line'. Workers on the line could, when they found a quality problem, stop the line and get it fixed. This was unknown in the US & British (European?) factories - the dodgy cars went straight out for us suckers to buy. Of course, no-one took the Japanese cars seriously in those days.

Had a test drive in a subaru impreza turbo yesterday. Guy was wanting 6300 sterling (is that about 9k US?) for it (5 years old, 88k miles, fsh). Tempted..

The books Heroz , Gung Ho and One Minute Manager all deal with empowering workers at every level. There are many more books like these too. Empowered workers are the very best. With all of this knowledge it is still amazing to me that upper management of some companies allow bad managers to continue on. A good manager is not a slave driver but a leader. I heartily agree with the above statement that it is very hard to turn a company around when they are doing the wrong thing. The old saying,"The beatings/firings will continue until morale improves" is really true for these bad companies.

long over. Trends now are toward factory automation, outsourcing and subcontracting, and non-unionized outfits like Saturn. Interest in "japanese-style" approaches to floor production management bottomed out when the Japanese economy bubble burst.

All I can say is no one told Toyota.
They have moved a lot of manufacturing to this country. I just read a story about a GM factory manager who was improperly fired from her job at the GM plant. She found a job at Bodine Aluminum(a Toyota company) and raved about how happy and inthusiastic people were at the Toyota plant as compared to the GM plant. I have taken the tour of the Toyota fork lift plant in Columbus Indiana. Everything is as the book Gung Ho would have it. And they arguably turn out the best forklift in the world. It is clean and happy and motivated.

jjrodger: In our country if I where to shoot and intruder(heaven forbid) I would be cosidered a hero. You folks simply have it all backward. I've been to England and, althought pretty, its not really for me. We in the US call it FREEDOM.

. . . and now for something completely different . . .

Inspired by this thread, I went ratting about in the garage and found my pair of black leather Jim Clark driving gloves. Now if I can just find the old driving cap . . . it's probably next to the Moss Motors or Abingdon Spares catalog . . .