IMO life is empty without the pitter patter of kids feet running around the house. The loving look that a child gives you is priceless.

Personally I don't see why a person has to be poor is the US, if anything a marriage should strengthen a guys earning potential.

I am not condoning this practice.
I would never have kids, if I am at a point of having kids with my companion, I would marry her first.

Huh?:confused:
In english, please:D

I'm 48 and single, I've made my choice. I've seen too many lazy women out there that treat men solely as a source of sperm and child support.

Wait a minute! What does the need for having 2 parents around have to do with marriage? Why does JamesAMG need to get married to have kids? Why isn't it equally as good for two long term committed companions to have kids as it is for married people to have kids?

And giving me some rest? Excellent!


1) It's her money so I have nothing to say about it.

2) He's my best friend, rather her spend it on him than a stranger!

Man, have you been hanging out with the wrong women. I guess I found a rare one, if what you say is true.
But then she came from a strong religous family, rooted in strong family values.

(he scores!:D )

YIKES! :eek:

English translation:
Religion helps devout Wiccan lesbian couples stay together.

LOL :D So does peyote ;) (I hear it goes nice with a game on the Ouija)

Does anyone know what the Pope's position on divorce and cohabitation is? please enlighten me.

Jen (a nice Lutheran girl)

Ok. I'll bite.
let's narrow it down to the more "traditional" conservative republican red neck Christian-type religion catagory.;)

Isn't Lutheren what Robin Williams called "Catholic light"?

No, wait. That was Episcopalian. Never mind.;)

He says he's never going to get one so neither should anyone else.

Cohabitation is another issue altogether. Lots of dormitories in monastaries.

The pope's divorce.

well, if the pope says no divorce but what if the husband is a wife- beating alcoholic drug user?

if he also says no birth control. hmmm...let's see, not having birth control means that she might get pregnant, but if she gets pregnant, she can't have an abortion. other than abstinence, it sounds like a circular argument.

which came first? the chicken or the egg?

Whoever said Catholicism made sense? :)

I can give a case study on how a religion sometimes holds a marriage together that otherwise should have fallen apart.

There's a couple I know (not related to) who are in their late 40's/early 50's. The man's a Lutheran while the woman's a very devout Catholic. Their marriage is still together for exactly one reason: her religion won't allow her to have a divorce (so she firmly believes, although IIRC it is possible to divorce in the Catholic faith without being condemned). Over 15 years ago, they went through extensive marriage counseling, and more than one counselor declared their marriage unsaveable. Since then, they've lived in misery (particularly on the part of the husband, who chain-smokes because it's the only way he can deal with the stress that she puts on him). The husband fights very hard to try and provide an income for the family (they're below the poverty line); the wife blows all the $$ away on useless junk and then talks about how they don't have the $$ to pay the bills.

I'm running late for a dentist appointment *shudders* so I can't go into further detaila t the moment...I guess the best way to illustrate it is by saying that the husband is a hard worker and is a good example of why the welfare system can work, while the wife is a lazy welfare queen who makes a really good example of why the welfare system shouldn't exist...

BTW, I know it's ancient history on this thread already *lol* but I'm actually agnostic (and while I was a Christian, if I were to go back to religion, I'd probably go to Judaism)...

Okay, off to the torture chamber for me...

She must be one hell of a lay, because otherwise, I can't figure out why he hangs around. Surely Lutheranism would let him off the hook.

As soon as religion becomes a club that you join, it has lost its social power. If you don't like the divorce rules of the club you belong to, join one with more acceptable rules.
Religion as lifestyle choice has no more power to modify behavior than non-religiously chosen values.

WOW, i am suprised at all the replies! and it hasnt been 24 hours since i made the post.

Well as for me, i have not made any commitment yet, so i am in the rich and single department. (even though i am not rich, lol)

Its suprising results. I am suprised so many people chose rich n single. Look at page 1 to 4.

As far as religion is concerned i am an atheist, so i dont know what impression you guys get...

We are not poor because of the wife. She is CHEAPER than I am and we make a good bit of $$ every year:).

We will have been married 19 years on 4/20/04 and she STILL complains about the oil on the driveway:(. I would have never made it to this age (rich or poor) if I had NOT been married. She did finally quit complaining about farting in bed though and actually cuts them herself every now and then but says she don't;).

In retrospect, the movie character wasn't "poor" in either case. He was just "middle class" in the dream scenario the angel showed him.

Today, my wife and I live a very middle class life, and would call ourselves anything but poor, even in financial terms. While we don't have a huge salary, we own our home and owe not a single cent to anyone. When I was working I did earn a pretty good living, but certainly not enough to purchase a new Ferrari.

Five years ago my wife and faced a dilemma. I worked at a job I hated, but allowed us to live a pretty nice lifestyle. It consumed a huge amount of time, but it did allow us to save a huge downpayment for our house, pay off the cars quickly, and so on. It gave us the "launching pad" we needed to make the choice that we live today. So, it did have a purpose.

I know that in my own life, the last five years have the been the most joy-filled of my 38. This is despite losing my Mom to cancer. The birth of my daughter changed me in ways that I never anticipated. In fact, the death of my Mom acted like a further wake up call to me that life is short, and I had damn well better keep my priorities straight.

Some people are driven in the way that the "before" character was. That's fine. People are all different. But, I know how I feel. Time, for my family, has become much more important than money. Don't get me wrong, it's important to us that we live in reasonable comfort, and we've invested alot to have that, but it's also given us some flexibility.

It's going to depend on your passions. Mine are pretty cheap, which is a good thing! But, they require time. My Dad and I are planning a month long backpacking and climbing trip through the Rockies this summer. How could I do that, and other things I love, if I had the strain of my previous career? Not a chance.

My Father is the typical type-A person. He was very successful in his career, and earned a fabulous living. Talk to him today and he wonders why. He was gone for the 70's, 80's and half the 90's. I didn't get to know him until I was in my 30's. We both have regrets on that front.

The last thing I want to do is be over 60, 70, or whatever, and feel that I wasted my life chasing something I never really wanted. People need to figure out (for real, not what you think other people expect) what is truly important to them, and chase it. It might be a penthouse and a Ferrari. It might be a good pair of shoes, a backpack, and a solitary life. It might be a family, time to roll in the grass with your kids, and the opportunity to chase your non-work passions.

No answer to the original question is right or wrong, unless you're lying to yourself.

how about rich & married or poor & single ;) The latter; sure worked out that way. It's all g though. :D

BLACKMERCEDES:

You sound like your at peace with your life.
Good for you. Wish I have what you have.
Its not really money that matters, although many people may say so. All humans have the same basic needs. Its when you get complacent in your life that the little things bother you. Over time it builds up and then one day, it will create something that may be very destructive.
Since I don't have what you have in my life, I would choose to be single and rich again.

Like you said, "No answer to the original question is right or wrong, unless you're lying to yourself. "

After reading today's deeply philosophical topics, it strikes me that with a proper clone, we might not have to make that choice......

New options to the poll:
Single, cloned, and rich
married, cloned, and poor
married with a rich clone, and you're rich
single with a rich clone, but you're poor
the clone is married and poor, you're rich and single
...............


Hey! Can you have a clone, but of the opposite sex? What happens if you married your clone? :confused:

LOL B

She does not share the same amount of enthusiasm reading through these posts that I do:). She will probably never see the post.

Well, then a popular but rather impolite suggestion might no longer be anatomically impossible. OK -- now I'm totally creeped out......:o

We'd k*ll each other before sundown!

This thread is wild to me. If your happy at home everything else falls into place. My wife and I have seen our bills exceed income to more money than we knew what to do with. While most people would think that being without money is bad I’ve never been happier in my life since I sold my business, while it’s known that I’m fairly well to do, I could never have achieved what I have without her support.

Now that I’m on the outside looking in like Blackmercedes I wish I would have done it sooner, our cash flow has decreased but I know even better now , that if we had to live in a tent we would likely be an even happier family.

If I had the choice of making huge $$$ or sharing a pretend cup of tea with my daughter in the morning I'd say that's my cup of tea.

I had the choice and the tea is fantastic.

Lots of great insights here - my compliments and thanks to all the posters.

Blackmercedes and medmech, how old r u two? Congradulations, you two are lucky. I seriously mean that. With the rich and poor thing, I was taking that to the extremes to illustrate the hypothetical situation.

By the way, i forgot to mention, I am 23, and never married and have no kids. I never been down the path yet, but someday might have to choose, so hence the question....

*A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learns from others :D

*Hey if you have a clone, and your wife was sleeping with "IT", would you consider that cheating? Remember "The 6th day" with arnold swarzeneger?

She's on her way to being rich!

39 in December

Not a bad idea at all. Where can I find one of these "clones"???

That reminds me of what I forgot...first off, eww *lol* Second, I don't think they've done anything like that in at least 10 years...even if he wanted to, she's got a 17 year old bisexual boy-toy (yeah, I know, double-eww); most of the $$ that she throws away, she's throwing away on him...

Probably a good case for the Jerry Springer Show... :(

Oh yeah, and she condemns me and my girlfriend because we're living together and aren't good Catholics... :rolleyes:

If by poor, you mean living under a bridge somewhere, with a wife, **** her, I'll take the money.

;)

If you mean middle class, I'll take my life now. Married and happy.

To echo medmech's statement, I didn't get my bearings straight without my wife. My business is pretty successful, though I still have to work, but I could not have done it without her.

Have a great day.

Perhaps you should add a choice to the poll "married with kids and poor". (I guess the poor & kids part is redundant).
A wise man judges is wealth not by bank accounts but by love and happiness and nothing comes close to the first morning snuggle from the little offspring.

I WAS anti- marriage and anti-kid but time and senility sure changed that. I highly now recommend both.

My $0.01 (Was two cents but I can't afford it anymore).

Kudos to this thread starter. Makes one think.

-Tom

Being single was the most expensive lifestyle I've ever had. My brain can not wrap around the question.

Amen to that. I put strippers and bartenders kids through college before I got married.

Se le guerre

It's funny how most people commented that they would rather be married and poor but the poll at the top of this topic still shows the Single and Rich vote to be higher, almost 2 to 1.

That's cause the poor don't vote! ;)

You can still keep whatever wealth you have while married. It's getting unmarried that hurts. So guys, everytime you hit that titty bar remember... is it worth half of what you got?

What timing,
Just found out that my old business associate is getting a Divorce after 10 years of marriage. Who knew it was gonna happen.
He worked very hard for 20 years to make his fortune and she is gonna get half plus alimony plus child support.

When your poor, half of everything you own is not that bad, but when your rich, it's like cutting off your legs.

There are two sides to every story. My wife and I have been together for many years (coming on 22) and during that time we've had instances where neither of us were working, either of us was working, and both of us were working.

Right now, and for the last five years, my wife has been the "breadwinner" in our family. But, that does not mean that I have not contributed in some manner. I have forgone income and career advancement to stay home with our daughter. It's not like it hasn't cost me a great deal. If we were to divorce today, would be it be fair for my wife to receive the bulk of our assets? No.

People moan about child support. If we were to divorce, one of us would be expected to shoulder the entire cost of raising and educating our children? That makes little sense to me.

Many men I know contribute little to their families beyond the earning of money. They see this as their role within the marriage, and why should it be different without?

I know many couples where the woman sacrificed her own education so that they could invest in the man's. Then they gave up pursuing their own career to further their husband's. Suddenly, after 15 or 20 years, the husband should be able to walk away with the asset base, his education, and his earning potential intact? Women need to be more proactive from a young adult age, and stop investing in their husbands. When it comes time to pay a tuition bill, they should insist that it's theirs. When it comes time to move cities for a promotion at the other's expense, women should not compromise and always expect their husbands to.

Then, at some point in the future, the women will have strong earning foundations, careers, and have no loss of earning potential. Then, if a divorce happens, they should demand that since they made the money and spent the time at work, they should walk away with everything.

To switch gears, I think divorce and marriage are not taken seriously enough anymore. People lease their cars and they lease their spouses. Marriages are HARD work, but it's a hulluva investment. No one that really put a great deal into their marriage came away with less in the end. My wife and I have faced difficulties not unlike any other couple. The reason we still have a strong and vibrant marriage is that we buckled down and put in the work when it was required. There is no quick fix. You can't watch an episode of Dr. Phil and come away with an easy solution.

People also take having children too lightly. They have no idea of what a life altering experience it is (and should be). Raising a family is also a huge commitment. People have become lazy. They always look for the easy way out.

It should be 100x tougher to divorce. It should be 100x costlier. Maybe a marriage license should cost $10,000? Maybe people should just stop being so damn selfish and learn to grow up.

...Rant over.

Shoot, I havn't been to the booby bar in years but I know I can without feeling the wrath of my wife, unless lipstick stains my collar:eek:

Just marry with the head on your shoulders and you'll be fine.

And stay away from feminists, we have a picture of famous feminists that my wife aquired from a hostile man hating family member, guess where we hung it?






THE LAUNDRY ROOM!

I'm not going to touch the religion part of this debate, because logic and reason quickly exit the building during religious debate.

But with the legal system being what it is nowadays, a person with any significant wealth that gets married without some sort of legal protection (pre-nup) is out of his/her mind, if you ask me.

It's not about lack of trust, or any of that crap...It's about eliminating risk. It removes that variable from the equasion. If someone decides to leave, then they leave with what they brought, plus 1/2 of whatever you earned together. They have no right to leave with what YOU brought.

If she's OK with a pre-nup, then you KNOW she's not "marrying the money". :) If she gets all wacked-out over the idea of a pre-nup, then you might have something to worry about, eh?...

Mike

Of course he should pay the child support, but alimony is CRAP.

It's an archaic, obsolete concept that should not exist in 2004.

Mike

Heeeere we go again.