Any W124 (E420) Horror Stories?

[rmasteller]

Hi. I'm going to test drive a 1994 E420 at lunch today. I drove a 1992 400E yesterday. Considering that you can not get a Starmark Warranty on this old of vehicle any more, should I still be interested in these vehicles? Any benefit from buying at a dealership when they can't provide Starmark? Are there any horror stories out there that might make me reconsider this model car? I've read a lot about them on this site and there aren't any stories like, "I bought the car and it exploded!" It seems like wiring harness, Automatic Climate Control, head gasket(?), and other things happen, but no $5,000+ catastrophies. I don't want to sink a lot of money into a car when I'm still paying a payment.


Here's the cars in town right now:

1992 400E, $12,900
Private owner selling car
2nd owner
102,000 miles
White w/ Gray leather
No extra options except ASR
(no heated seats, no CD changer, no rear sunshade, etc.)
Claims to have complete records (didn't ask to see them)
Drove well in neighborhood, didn't get on freeway

1994 E420, $18,900
Local MB Dealer selling car
55,400 miles
30-day and/or 1,000 mile limited warranty
Gray w/ Black leather
Haven't seen the option codes or records, and haven't driven the car yet.

[JCE]

I think the most likely '$5000 catastrophe' that wasn't covered in your list would be the AC Evaporator. I would want it on my list of 'done items' or a discount on the car. That, plus full records showing good and timely service.

[Jim Anderson]

Ask to see the records. When I bought mine they advertised complete records, but after I bought the car they went to look for them and couldn't find them (couldn't find any other keys except the valet key either.)

[rmasteller]

John,
Thanks for the AC Evaporator tip. I will look for that and other typical problems (radiator neck) in the records.

Jim,
The service book was complete and always stamped by the other MB dealer in town. I plan on calling them tomorrow to see if they will let me see all their records. I don't want to know just the service, but the repairs too.

Everyone,
I drove the car today and it was good over all. It has both ASR and heated seats, which I am looking for. It's not metallic gray, it's metallic black (with black leather). The engine ran and sounded very smooth, oil pressure was always good, engine temp never got too high, no creeks or clunks in the suspension, drove straight under gas or brake, and just seemed nice. All the things I tested worked (power driver's seat and seat memory, heat, AC, radio (see below), heated seats, ASR, sun roof). I have not tested other things (power windows, windshield wiper, cruise control, ABS, rear head rest drop button, power mirrors, head light washers & wipers, all interior and exterior lights).

Issues are:
- There is a "knock" or "tap" in the steering column when the steering wheel was wiggled back and forth (car moving or not) and when the car went over bumps on side streets. Something loose.
- There was a low frequency groan when pressing the brakes frimly on the freeway. Didn't hear it as much or at all on side streets. Didn't feel a vibration in the brake pedal. Car didn't pull to either side when braking.
- The pivoting arm rest attached to the driver's seat felt flimsy.
- Radio reception (FM) was poor. I'm not sure if the antenna extended completly. How many inches should it extend and how many sections are there to it?

The sales guy was nice, invited me back to take it for an "extended" test drive, like an hour or so. I will take this opprotunity to show the car to some fellow MB enthusiasts in person and get their opinions. Let me know if you have any suggestions!

Thanks,

[royaiii]

The newer car is probably the better choice because it has almost half the mileage. On W124, EVAP failure are common but not guaranteed. But, timing chain replacement is guaranteed at over 100k on these m119 engines. The timing chain costs about 2 grand to fix which will soon level the playing field between the two cars. The dark paint on the dealer car is a definite plus because a white W124, has too much black plastic trimming that makes it stand out. The groan could be the calipers and rotors need replacement but a tech will have to check. I would only buy the older car if everything that could go wrong was replaced. The m119 engine is one of the best engines MB ever produced and they seem to last 350k miles, usually. The older car probably needs a new set of dampeners and flex disc.

[Gary Ganaway]

I would ask them to do the dye check on the A/C. I have a 95 E420 that showed leaks in the evaporator, expansion valve and a hose. I went ahead and had the hose and expansion valve fixed, system recharged and all has been well for several months, so hopefully the dreaded evaporator fix can be delayed for sometime. As far as the groan when applying brakes my brake pedal occasionally makes a similar noise but nothing to do with the brakes. With 55,000 miles you will be coming up on the 60K service with dist cap, rotors, all fluids, etc but most of these can be DIY. My radio works great and I would say the antenna extends about 30 inches. Need to make sure the antenna is kept clean for smooth operation. Will dealer supply CARFAX report?

The E420 is great car and if you are reasonably mech inclined, you can do many services yourself. Another key is to find good independent shop. I'm fortunate in Cincinnati to have Precision Motorcars Good Luck

[rmasteller]

Thanks for the great input Gary and Royaiii. The dealer did provide a CarFax report.

Odometer Check
6/15/94 - 3,965 miles

Vehicle History
12/07/93 - Ohio Title Issued, Columbus, OH
04/26/94 - Ohio Title Issued, Columbus, OH
06/01/94 - Registered as Private Vehicle, Dublin, OH*
06/15/94 - Ohio Title Issued, Dublin, OH*

(* Dublin is a suburb of Columbus, and is where the car is for sale)

So, what's with 3 titles in the first 6 months? Anyone got any ideas? And since it specifies the Private Vehicle, what does that imply, that it was a Public Vehicle before? I'll make sure that when I ask for the maintenance and repair records today, I'll ask about the odd title history too. According to service booklet, all service was done in at the dealer in Columbus.

I am currently looking for an independant W124 "expert" who can go over the car for me. I'm thinking the following, let me know what I forgot:

- Check AC as suggested (dye)
- Inspect brakes
- Pull valve covers and inspect top end
- Compression and leak-down(?) tests
- Inspect all rubber in suspension and drive line
- Inspect exhaust
- Measure emissions at tail pipe
- Inspect spark plugs for signs of poorly tuned engine
- Inspect engine, transmission, steering, and brakes for leaks
- Inspect ignition components (resistance in plug wires, worn rotor, etc.)
- Run a Mercedes Master Vehicle Inquiry to check for warranty work. (Is this correct? I've heard something like this before.)
- Spray wash car to ensure sunroof, windows, and trunk don't leak

Any thing else?

Thanks, you guys and this forum are great!

[Gary Ganaway]

Regarding the Master Vehicle Report. MBUSA will get this for you but you have to show you are the current owner, at least this is what I had to do. So, the dealer, who now has the title, should do this for you. The dealer could also get the emmisions checked by running it thru a Ohio echeck station. This check would probably tell you a lot about how plugs, etc are doing. But since you say the service records are there and with such low mileage I'll bet it passes with flying colors. My car had 57,000 miles on it andI had to get echeck which I was thinking "hre we go wonder what problems I'll find" but it passed well within limits and this was before the 60K service. I too, was fortunate to have virtually all service records. To me this is one of the best confidence builders you have when looking at a car i.e. good validated records.

[rmasteller]

"The dealer could also get the emmisions checked by running it thru a Ohio echeck station."

Emission checks are not required in Ohio, so I would have to have a mechanic do this.

"MBUSA will get the Master Vehicle Report for you but you have to show you are the current owner, at least this is what I had to do. So, the dealer, who now has the title, should do this for you."

Thanks, I will ask them today to provide that.

[Lebenz]

Even if Starmark is not available, check into Wynn's, they too provide good coverage, if you go with them be sure to get the hi tech option (covers electronics) and as low a deductible as is offered. You will enjoy the car!!!!

[Gary Ganaway]

rmasteller

Maybe only a few counties in Ohio require e check..I live in Hamilton which does and you have to do it every 2 years...what a pain. It costs $19.00 and really what good does it do since you could have emmisions problems the next day and start polluting the air for the next 2 years. I can't avoid it since you cannot get car registered without having an e check ok.

[rmasteller]

Update:
I got the MVI from the dealership selling the car. It shows that the other dealer in town was the original selling dealer. That dealer provided me all their service records today, but they said they did not see the "codes" that show that they originally received the car from the factory. They may have sold the car through a dealer trade or something like that. So, that's strange. I still have no explanation on the three titles in seven months (12/93 to 6/94) shown on the CarFax. The service records look pretty complete at first glace. I'll look in detail tonight and compare against the MVI information.

Should I worry about the multiple early titles? I think it was a one-owner from 94 to present since the 6/94 title was the last one shown in the CarFax. The dealer with the car for sale says that it was traded in at their dealership, that is, they did not get it from another dealership or an auction.

I'm starting to feel better about this car. I'm curious, but maybe not concerned, about the multiple titles early on.

The dealership will sell me a warranty through Chase America Warranty Company. They have the Premium Plan and Eliete Plan up to 36 months with unlimited milage. It will be expensive and I'm tight on money right now. Is it necessary? The president of our local MBCA chapter says this dealer has a good reputation with their used cars they sell. Usually very good cars.

I bought a 1994 E420 with 107k miles two weeks ago, you probably already know this but definitely get a prepurchase inspection by a independent dealer.

You've listed all the car's known weaknesses already. Another thing to check is the lifters or oil tubes, when I had my ppi done, this was the only problem the independent mechanic found apart from needing brakes, I was told the problem would cost $1600 to fix.

I bought the car anyway bcuz the dealer gave me a discount based on that after some haggling. After posting a message to this forum, I was told MB issued a service bulletin about this and I'm taking to car to MB Autowerks tommorow to get the lifter problem fixed, should cost $600. The MB dealer should fix this for free if it needs to be fixed.

The car hasn't given me any problems at all, the only thing is a diesel engine (ka, ka, ka) sound every once in a while, fixing the lifters/oil tubes tommorow should stop this.

Sorry to derail the thread but is the master vehicle report free and if it's not how much is it.

Thank you

[rmasteller]

My Master Vehicle Inquiry was free, but that could be because they are trying to sell the car. This is the first MVI I have ever seen. I'm glad I got it, because the "complete service record" I got from the other MB dealer that had been servicing the car was very incomplete in the early years. All the problems in the first 24,000 miles were described as "No Description". But, they were described on the MVI, so I'm thinking they enter warranty work in the Corporate system and it does not get entered in the local dealer system. Could be on a dealer-by-dealer basis?

I guess now all I need is a Independant PPI from someone experienced on the W124 chassis and M119 engine.

What should my target price be? They're asking $18,900 for the car. I have looked at KBB.com, NADA.com, and Edmunds.com for prices and this seems to be the tip top of the price range. Not considering what the PPI may reveal, what should be my target price?

1994 E420
55,000 miles
30-day/1,000 mile warranty
Black metallic paint
Black leather
Memory on driver's power seat
Heated front seats
Telescopic steering column
Rear window defrost & heated outside mirrors
Sun roof
Bose premium stereo (according to option codes, it looks "normal" to me)
ABS & ASR
Battery disconnect (according to option codes, I haven't seen it)
NO CD changer
NO rear window sunshade
NO cell phone

Thanks!