Well guys like I said all the info is welcomed and I would love more.

As far as the benz it is a nice car

What I am looking for is long term reliability.

Yes parts for the Q are damn expensive and I have compared some parts prices and benz wins in alot of departments.

How are the trannies on these cars? How do they do with flushes? Do they already have tranny coolers?

Not uncommon for a tranny of that vintage to need a rebuilt around 150K miles. Lots of good shops and MB's prices are surprisingly reasonable.

No need to flush as you would on other cars because MB provides a drain for the torque converter. Drain pan, drain converter, replace filter, fill and go.

Standard in-radiator cooler. No need to do things differently unless you haul gold ingots or tow.

The thing to get used to in an 88 300E vs 90 Q is the archaic (classic?) look of the 300E gauges and feel of the controls and switches. To the right person, they feel right and shouldn't be any other way. To someone who grew up on Japanese cars (like me) there's a lack of precision, needless heaviness (but maybe necessary to last 500K miles) and downright hostility in things like ACC controls. That's a d@mn big steering wheel, too. If you like it when you drive it, good for you. If you think it'll grow on you over time, it probably won't. This is one of the last cars built by MB engineers. Soon after the accounting department took over and tradition was compromised. The 300E is built perfectly if you fit the mold, but not everyone fits the mold. I sound like I'm a gatekeeper for the club

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

Such a comparison. Apples and oranges. A Q45 is basically an exotic. There will be almost nothing DIY friendly under the hood. The 300e is a grocery getter, the last of the midsize DIY friendly MBs. They are simple, simple to work on and never need head gaskets. The only weakness of the motor is valve guide seals which are easily replaced.

The trans is as good as they come the suspension and brakes useful, simple and generally durable.

They are also rather boring, often highly desirable it seems.

__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

Well the Q steering wheel is bigger than most so that is not a problem. I really need the reliability.

the Q is a real nice car but damn these parts are ridiculous

I have known many M103 equipped car owners (2.6L in W201 and W124 and 3.0L in W124) and have not known one that has had to replace the head gasket. I have known a few that had the gasket replaced as part of a top end job, but the mileages were very very high and the gasket was not leaking.

The M103 also has a simple timing chain route, and the chain is long lived, and when it does need replacing, it's not a difficult or expensive job.

Like the 190E 2.6, the 300E is not a "dynamic" car by today's standards. It was a world beater back in 1986 when it hit the NA market. Quicker than a Porsche 944, it was also the quickest, fastest, and best handling Mercedes as well, besting even the flagship S-Class and SEC. However, compared to a new E-Class, they are pretty hum-drum.

The four speed autobox rarely fails before 150K-miles, and many live much longer than that. Rebuilding the tranny is easy and not terribly expensive. Not sure about in the US, but in Canada, Mercedes-Benz Canada sells a "factory" (rebuilding center in Toronto) rebuilt unit that is no more expensive than rebuilding your own unit, and comes with a very good warranty. It gives a good option if the original is gone completely.

As to the engine, I have never heard of an M103's bottom end wearing out. I have heard of some failing thanks to negligence, but as to simply wearing out, never seen it.

Items like brake parts are inexpensive and easy to DIY. All the fluids/filters are easy to DIY.

The only problem I really see with older W124 300E's is that the number of well cared for examples is lessening thanks to low prices and multiple owners.

__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

Pito11213,

Years ago, I had to replace a totalled 87 Accord. I ended up with a 89 260E -- kind of impulse buying, as I did not have much time for research. Looking back, it was a good decision as I really liked the W124.

I kept the 89 260E for 2 years, before trading it in for a mini-van (wife won the argument). But I missed the W124 so much that I eventually picked one up again, this time a 95 E320 (with wife's blessing, as the mini-van stays).

BTW, in case you've not read it yet, there is a very good write-up on the 300E/E320 in this site. You can find it via the Cars tab along the top.

Good luck to your car hunting.

I hope that I am wrong about the head gasket.
Mine was fixed before I bought the car(91 190e 2.6)at 80K.
On the old 190e site there was a thread on gasket
failure with many going before 100K. The 190's
have the 2.6 not the 3.0 could this be the difference?

old timer here, also a mechanic. last year after finding this site and reading most auto treads going back about two years, i found myself needing a mercedes. first was a 88 190e 2.3, but while waiting for a good motor(previous owner ran regular fuel,melted piston, then overheated it real bad. even the best motors can not be run without water) i found a 88 300e with 200k miles in great shape.with no records, used car lot, i bought it because under the hood was a mercedes battery and correct coolant. if it was green i would have passed. also all the toys worked.
this car is now up to 215k miles and i am hooked on the 300e with the great six under the hood. love this car. it makes my (now) great running 190e seem cheap. maybe because of the 6 cyl verses the 4 in the 190. the 190 is a very strong car but the 6 gives nice smooth power and after 3,000 rpm it is very fast
the same car dealer had another 300e with 120k miles on it which ran and drove like a worn out car. so milage is important, but one in great condition is the key to what you want.being serviced by german shops is very important also. low miles on a mercedes can be a car that had a bad odometer,check records if you can.did the car have the same milage for 6 years in a row?
i love the way it drives and the second gear start is a calmer way to drive.
with the saftey and great motor i will always own the m103 or m104 300 series
plus german cars drive so nice .caution,these cars are habit forming.
being in san diego,ca. there is a great supply of these cars to choose from
next one will be a 300ce. the car you mentioned sells for 5-6k down here
for me i have no problem with a 1988. i quart oil every 800-1000 miles is fine
with me good luck rich

__________________
88 300E White, sold 9-04
88 190E Black 2.3 sold
90 300CE White, Grey sold 12-24-04
92 400E White,Grey Sold 5-06
90 300CE 91K Signal Red,Black Sold 2007
1989 300CE Smoke silver,Tan Sold 1-08
1993 300E 3.2 M104 motor
1991 300CE White,Grey
1994 E420 beautiful car,gone to new home
1994 E320 Smoke an Parchment.Beautiful car

I own a lo mi. (68,500 mi.) 1988 300 CE. Before I bought it (in 12/91, with 41k then), a PPI by an MB dealer revealed an oil leak at rear of block among other things. Seller & I made a price adjustment. So, I'm one owner that has a second head gasket (and at very lo miles ). At about 55k, the car began guzzling oil..1 qt. every 500 mi. or so. Valve seal job (approx $400.00). Problem solved. The rest has been pretty routine stuff. ( I'm no diyer. MB dealer scheduled maintenance)

If your into coupes, here's a pitch for the 300CE. All the positives of the 124/103(104) combo, with the advantage of greater classic beauty as well as being a reltively rare style. They only sold about 2,500 or so per year during the production run. Mine is garnet with a bone interior. A real head turner (imho)!!...and definitely more that a grocery getter!

I suggest that you find out owner history by doing carfax. Generally, the more owners & title transfers, the more likely maintenance has suffered or car has been abused. Good luck!

PS: I love my car!

I really appreciate all the replies. Looks like these benz's are pretty good. By the way the benz is a nice red and I guess that is pretty rare since I haven't seen another one yet. Keep the info and data coming nothing is miniscule. By the way this site seems to be more informational than the other mb forum.

You should cross-post to the BMW and Audi forums for counterpoints. Or do you really expect someone in this forum to say that 300Es are cr@p?

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

89 300CE 170K
Only two years MB ownership, but will state:
The reliability of the car is not an issue - 124's are great. It's the reliability of the owner that counts. You must fix it when it breaks, even the little fiddly bits. If you don't, you'll have a car you hate in six months. It is guaranteed to cost you a few $ and some of your time. But it is worth it.

Pay attention - ride around with the windows open and the radio off and listen once in awhile. Then do what needs to be done. These cars will go forever ( I hope). You'll learn to use Fastlane - you'll actually enjoy changing the fluids and getting it all just right. I just put new, expensive, Bilstiens in a 170K car and am happy about it. Tomorrow I leave on a 600 mile trip with complete confidence in a 15 year old car.

If you are looking for a car that is reliable even if the owner isn't, buy a Camry.