W140 Inside Mirror - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

albert champion · #1 10-11-2004, 07:22 PM

can anyone confirm for me when the remote controller on this mirror went to rolling code transmission?

i ask this because i have a 1997 model year[assembled 10/96] where the mirror seems to be single code only.

yet i understand that sometime later in the 1997 model year codes, the mirror remotes accommodated rolling code signals.

does anyone know in what month of 1997 model year production that upgrade occurred. and did that upgrade result in a different mirror part number vis a vis the non-rolling code version?

also, would i be correct in assuming that the rolling code version mirror could replace the non-rolling code version without any difficulty?

even better, are the rolling code transmitter components available for purchase and can they be substituted for the non-rolling code components in an easy and straight swap?

all ears....

Gilly · #2 10-11-2004, 08:23 PM

Hmmmmmm, very complicated subject.
Well, first of all, ALL 1997 are DAS-X. On the 129 and 140, there is NO IR receiver on the rear view mirror. There are 3 IR receivers on the 129 and 140, which are located at both front doors and the trunk. You wouldn't be able to try to change any of these components from factory configuration, everything is VIN-specific, and I am unsure if the IR signal is rolling code, I rather doubt it.
There were no revisions to the system, all 1997s are DAS-X.
1996's are DAS-2, they have the IR receiver in the rear view mirror.
One thing did happen in 1996 similar to what you are discussing in relation to a mid-year change. The E420 initially was equipped with DAS-2, but from 1/96 to 6/96 the E420 was produced with a system called DAS-2a, which is similar to DAS-X. Starting 6/96 then all MB's sold in the US were DAS-X.

Gilly

PS On the 97 202 and 210's, they DID have the interior rear view mirror receiver, plus receivers on the front doors only, not the trunklid.

albert champion · #3 10-11-2004, 09:46 PM

not abrasive, i think, but i think you missed the query. and i think that you may know the answer if i can parse it out for you better...

here goes..

as you know, undoubtedly, the inside mirror on the 140's had three buttons. these could be programmed to operate rf-controlled garage doors and other homelink rf gadgets[entry lights, gates, interior lights, etc].

sometime after 1/1/97, garage doors began to be controlled by rolling code rf transmissions. so, if one owned a 140 assembled prior to some date in 1997, the rf transmitter[single code] in the mirror could no longer operate the garage door[nor any other rolling code devices].

now, i have this c140 that was assembled in 10.96. its inside mirror electronics are single code.

that was OK for my garage door when i acquired the car last april. but as the world works, shortly after that acquisition my 30 year old garage door mechanism said ENOUGH and had to be replaced. replacements today incorporate rolling code rf controllers. now, the remote controller contained within my mirror could not communicate with the garage door controller.

it is my thinking that the rolling code upgrade mirror[introduced as standard fitting in 1997] can be substituted without difficulty for the non-rolling code predecessor.

furthermore, it is my thinking that the internal non-rolling code electronic components can be easily replaced by the rolling code components.

now, the m-b dealer who sold me this c140 owned up to the reality that they owed me a functional mirror. no charge, they sent me a new one, ostensibly the most recent generation, capable of rolling code rf transmission.

but, this mirror still doesn't handle rolling codes. i suspect that the m-b dealer sent me a mirror that matches my vehicle's vin # and does not support rolling codes.

i would like to learn if there were different part numbers for these mirrors. i have tried looking up inside mirrors for 140's up on fast track...it doesn't recognize the part number that i have for this new mirror, nor does it recognize any part number for an inside mirror. hmmmmmmmm.

lastly, i have this complaint with m-b...it occurs to me that if a material change in the rf transmission capabilities[non-rolling code to rolling code] of the mirror occurred in the middle of a model year, then m-b should be obligated to retrofit all vehicles of that model year with the upgrade.

yes or no?

all ears....

if there is still any confusion concerning this matter, address it...please. i find this a very esoteric subject that m-b dealers run from. either i am not making myself understood, or this issue is one that m-b dealers have been instructed to avoid.

consider, i have dealt with a m-b service manager[now vp service] for almost 30 years. we are not friends, but we are friendly. but when i ask him for help on this mirror issue, it is as if i have asked him if venusians own the dealership which cuts his paycheck. and the shop foreman, who i have also worked with for almost 30 years, who has always treated me as a mechanical equal, goes into the long stare when i ask him about this issue.

what is the deal? what are the answers?

yoohoo. anyone got a clue?

Gilly · #4 10-11-2004, 10:11 PM

Ahhhhh, the whole first post makes sense now. If you review the first post, you'd see where the addition of the words "garage door" in a few spots would make it more clear.

Not sure. Even tougher questions. Have you tried contacting Homelink? Of course they're usually even worse than MB dealers, but wouldn't hurt to ask.
When looking up MB part numbers of this nature, usually you need to include a 4 digit color code as well, that may be the problem with looking up a part number. If the mirror shape is the same, a later version should work.
Are your intentions to order a new mirror which would be rolling code and that's why you need to know, or are you thinking of finding a later model (w/rolling code) mirror to swap the Homelink module out of, or something else?
If it helps, I do know that an easy way to ID rolling from non-rolling is the color of the small LED/LEDs on the mirror, one type is green and the other they call red, but is more of an amber color to me.

I agree, the dealer gave you the mirror that was specified for the car, you can't fault the dealer for doing that.

My view on Mercedes responsibility is that I'm sure if the mirror with rolling code was available for installation at the time the vehicle was built, that they would have installed it. Since it was never "promised" to be built with rolling code, I don't feel they have an obligation to retrofit just because the lucky ones who got a later built car have rolling code. BUT I would think that the older fixed code units should have been discontinued as a replacement part. One factor to consider is that the owners manual will be incorrect, or at least be omitting any mention of programming a rolling code opener. You DO know there is a different procedure for programming the rolling code type of equipment, correct?

Get back to me on these comments and maybe I can dig a little deeper for an answer. I like the idea of getting a newer control board installed, as long as you are confident in disassembling a new mirror to do it. Compare colors of the LED's if you still have the old mirror.

Gilly

nhodges · #5 10-11-2004, 11:25 PM

Did 94s have this? I see no mention of it in my owners manual.

Gilly · #6 10-11-2004, 11:28 PM

There's that whole "vague" thing again. Have WHAT, garage door openers (Homelink)?
Gilly

nhodges · #7 10-12-2004, 12:09 AM

We are discussing garage door openers are we not? Sorry for any ambiguities

albert champion · #8 10-12-2004, 12:38 AM

gilly,

good, i think that we are on the same wavelength.

when i attempt to program this new mirror, according to the instructions in my owner's manual, an amber light blinks. and based on that manual, concluding, it blinks like crazy. this indicates that it has taken the code from my remote controller.

however, it fails to operate my garage door.

on the other hand, the overhead door remote that failed to program the mirror, continues to operate the garage door.

just for the record, when i first encountered this situation after acquiring this c140, i telephoned m-b care. i was told that the problem was with my mirror, that it antedated rolling code.

when i asked if replacing the o.e. 10.96 mirror would enable actuation of the garage door, i was disconnected.

clearly, there is something about this issue that causes m-b to run away from the question.

what is it do you suppose?

Gilly · #9 10-12-2004, 05:17 AM

Indifference? Were you being "nasty" about it? Are you sure your garage door unit is actually rolling code and did you have someone push the training button on the unit (assuming it's rolling code) to learn a new remote? Also some garage door openers are simply incompatable with Homelink. There is a Homelink website, I'd bother them a little about it, make sure yo know your garage door opener brand and model number when you contact them.
What IS you garage door brand and model. Maybe I cab find something out for you.

I don't know, I doubt they are running from a lawsuit, if that's what you mean. We're talking about a garage door opener here, not airbags. If you bought it new and were promised a rolling code GDO, that'd be different.

Can you compare the color of the flashing light on your old opener and new one?

Gilly

albert champion · #10 10-12-2004, 07:24 PM

OK. problem resolved. apparently m-b failed to do a very good write-up on the rf-transmitting mirrors in the owner's manual. and they must have been getting a lot of flak over it as they have, suddenly it appears, commissioned a phone key for these problems. when keyed, your phone is patched through to HOMELINK customer service.

to take advantage of their programming assistance, it is best that you be in your car in front of your garage door. don't waste your time calling from your office or from inside your house.

for a rolling code rf receiver, your mirror needs to have an amber light. the green light versions will only work with single code rf receivers.

anyway, the mirror that m-b san antonio furnished has the amber light and once it becomes programmed into the garage door rf receiver's memory it works perfectly.

the guy i talked with at HOMELINK told me an interesting story about m-b, though. he claims that HOMELINK[a div of johnson controls] has furnished m-b copy for owner's manual instructions, but that m-b decided not to use it. further, he said that homelink offered to supply a separate manual to m-b to include in their manual kit, but that m-b declined. if this story is true, go figure.

my guess is that owners of single code homelink mirrors might be able to open up the mirror and replace green light circuitry with amber light circuitry. pretty certain that the footprint for the electronics will be identical.

happy end of story. now i can dedicate my overhead door remote controller to the e320cab.

Gilly · #11 10-12-2004, 07:52 PM

Ummmmmmm, you're welcome??

Gilly

albert champion · #12 10-12-2004, 08:57 PM

better still, thank you.

i can only conclude by relating how ignorant so many are concerning these rf transmitting mirrors.

gilly, had it not been for your willingness to be of assistance, i might have given up on making this "gift" mirror function properly.

no one else really cared. or cared to know. that includes human beings at mb cares and m-b dealer service personnel.

your intellectual curiosity makes this board the rich resource that i have found it to be since i signed up.

applause. take a bow. maintain that helpful spirit.

Gilly · #13 10-12-2004, 09:19 PM

That's better..... :p
So I assume I was probably on the right track in that there was a button on the opener itself that needed to be pressed to program the rolling code? It helps to mention some of the steps required, sometime someone may put "garage door opener" into the search engine and come up with an answer.

The other significant thing I mentioned that you don't hear of very much is that the clue to knowing if your garage door opener will work with a rolling code garage door is the color of the small flashing LED's. I wasn;t sure which one was for rolling code, it evidently is amber for rolling code and green for non-rolling code, as you indicated.

YES the folks at Homelink that I have needed to talk to seemed very nice.

YES (as an ad for some business around here mentions): "In a world of technology, PEOPLE make the difference". (Don't use that for anything official, may be trademarked).

It WOULD be nice to know when MB changed to rolling code, I never have found out officially. Keep the color of LED's in mind at that should keep the answer less significant.

It would help to refer to this feature as "Garage Door Opener" or "Homelink", to talk about it as "RF" still makes me think of in terms of remote unlocking issues.

Nhodges, I am unsure if a 94 has Homelink or not, should be on the bottom of the inside rearview mirror if it has it.

OH, Albert, was the old mirror rolling code (amber) or fixed code (green)? In other words did you get the update to rolling code when you got the new mirror, or was the old mirror rolling code also?

Gilly

albert champion · #14 10-12-2004, 10:37 PM

and that is the spirit that i prize about this site, gilly, so many want to be helpful.

i think that i have told the story previously, but succinctly, it goes like this...

i stumbled into this very low mileage, immaculate c140. it was in san antonio. i live in metro-houston. i flew to san antonio to complete the purchase on a friday afternoon. after my personal check cleared, i was given a pre-flight, for the first time, in the vehicle. 3pm in san antonio.

vehicle was starmarked. and i purchased an additional 2 years. as the sales guy and i sat in the vehicle before i launched, i moved to adjust the mirror. peripherally, i noticed him flinch. and when i touched the mirror i figured out why, the mirror had the floppies.

i told him that this needed to have been fixed. he said, take it to the dealer in houston and get it repaired and we shall reimburse you. fine. little did i know that benz dealers do not repair these mirrors and that they cost a grand.

after getting back to houston, m-b san antonio and mbusa went to great lengths to duck their obligation to repair or replace this mirror. it was beyond believing. if i shared with you the m-b san antonio and mbusa prevarications you would think that you were listening to gwbu****.

and m-b houston dealers and personnel that i had dealt with for 30 years went deaf when i asked for their help in this matter.

however, when intercontinental motors[now m-b north] started its autonation shuffling, i began to use an indy to work on my benzes. my indy works on my 560sel, 560sec, e320cab, 6.9, and gmc yukon. and now the s500c. of course, i told him of the mirror situation.

he told me that he might be able to get me some satisfaction. seems that he buys all of his parts from m-b san antonio. he could be one of their larger accounts. i sat there when he picked up the phone and telephoned them. even i was fidgeting when i listened to how hard he was with them.

but he accomplished the objective. threatened with a curtailment of that business, the most current version of the mirror was furnished on a no charge basis.

the original 10/96 broken mirror was a fixed code, greenlight.

the no charge replacement was a rolling code, amberlight.

indies rule.

really, it was sad that it had to come to that. m-b san antonio and mbusa knew that they were forking a long-term benzer. the concept of goodwill has disappeared.

if there were just more twisty bits here, if my indy wasn't enamored of benzes, this incident would motivate me to alter my allegiance. abandon benz for aston, ferrari.

still tempted.

m-b san antonio did get it, finally. after more than a year, i have a mirror that doesn't flop. and that reads rolling codes.

the original 10/96 mirror was a green light fixed code transmitter.

i want to close on this positive note...when you think you are being screwed by mb, make waves. and exploit every option. i wrote m-busa and got no responses. i wrote m-b san antonio and got no responses. i talked to houston metro m-b dealers - no fighting for me.

and then i mentioned the situation to my indy. i had no knowledge that he bought all his m-b proprietary parts from m-b san antonio.

he fought for me. he won. because of that, i won.

i had an order in for a e320cdi. i cancelled it. i will not support those entities that would not stand up for me. i refuse to enlist in the effort of m-b to f*ck its long-term, loyal customers.

sigh.

when will d-b learn?

nhodges · #15 10-12-2004, 10:51 PM

What do you want for the old single code mirror? PM or email me.