Thanks. I spoke with the owner this evening. He's been taking it in for service at a local indy Mercedes shop for maintenance and has all his records. He's at 98k and hasn't changed the timing chain yet. He wasn't aware this was necessary, the shop hasn't told him yet. Makes me wonder a little about his shop. He has it there regularly.

I'm going to drive it on Saturday morning. If I like it, I'll do the pre-sale inspection with a local dealer or specialist. After getting the timing chain and basic service, I'll have between $6 and $6.5k in it.

If the slightly higher mileage single-owner `87 in Arizona has had the timing chain done, I can probably come out ahead even though I'd have to fly to AZ to get it.

~Bill

Phoenix is blessed with a lot of good MB shops - either of the following would be good:

Mike @ Schulte Automotive, 602-231-0049, in central Phoenix, or
Goody @ Goody's Automotive, 480-596-4033, in North Scottsdale

Both are capable and impeccably honest.

Thanks, Dean. The car is in Scottsdale so that's perfect.

~ Bill

Well the timing chain on a 560/M117 is stronger then the 420 M116. The M116's would break the chain guides their plastic and get brittle with age. When they start to go bad you will hear it on start up, it sounds like a rattle. Now the M117 on the other hand didn't seem to break them as often. You can let the chain go for a little while if you have to. But on the other hand your better off just getting it changed and be done with it. M117's also seem to wear their cams kind of fast and all MB V8's of this era seem to need valve jobs between 150k and 200k. From your description it sounds like the kind of W126 you want to buy and that is a real good price. If he stuck that car on ebay it would probably go for around $6k. Maybe more because the mileage is real low.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The risk with relying with "hearing" the timing chain rattle before it breaks is that many people won't hear the sound or recognize it. When it rattles, it kind of sounds like something from the exhaust and can sound normal. Not everyone has ears tuned like that. Also the rattle often only occurs in the morning when you first start it up, at least it did in my case.

I think people really need to change those chains and tensioners proactively and not try to listen for a sound.

I'm going to plan on having it done pretty quickly. The car is at 98k and if I buy it, I'm not going to let it get past 100k without changing it. I'll probably just do it immediately. Btw, I know this depends on a shop's workload but how long does the timing chain job usually take?

And what do valve jobs usually run on the M117?

Thanks...

~Bill

So do you take it that the shop this guy's using that hasn't mentioned replacing the timing chain to him or let him know he's getting close at 98k is a sign that the shop is either negligent or similar to the guy you encountered that hoped it would break so he'd get the bigger job?

~Bill

I don't remember what the labor estimate is for the timing chain, all the shops in my area take the typical number and multiply it by a zillion on way or another. I know I've just heard that $1500 number thrown around but if you live in an area where folks can work less expensively then maybe the job can be done for less, I think I've seen less numbers. I think the parts cost for the job is probably only a few hundred dollars. I'm wondering if they aren't quoting 8 hours on the job and 2x markup on the parts. I'm sure there are some DIY'ers here that can do that job in an afternoon (not me though I've never tried).

When my timing chain blew (this was the era before I "owned" the mechanical work on this car but instead outsourced it-- no more, I either do it myself whenever I possibly can or ** manage ** the work of another job), the mechanic who took the car part in front of me (parts of it) commented that I was due for a this job and a that job.

However, not all of these cars I don't believe will require the heads be pulled, valve work, etc. A lot of it depends on how well the car was maintained, how frequently the oil was changed. Some other folks who see the cars all day long however will have a better view of this than me.

Not exactly related to this thread but instead related to DIY, assessing new cars, and keeping them new is the use of fuel injector cleaner and a hard drive every 3 to 6 months. I swear by Chevron Techron, I've used other fuel injector cleaners and this one really seems different. Get the big 20 gallon tank one and throw it in there when the tank is empty, fill it up, and take the car for a good hard drive. This should save you thousands of dollars of unnecessary work later on the fuel system, intake valves, etc. Techron really does clean the intake valves, really does clean the fuel intake system, and can be a tremendous help with your emissions system. The car will run better. Change the oil, keep the fuel system/intake system clean, and stay on top of all other maintenance items. For example, when you buy the car, find out the last time the transmission fluid was changed and the actual filter dropped out of there-- they should get all of the fluid out, not just draining it. They should remove more than few quarts. The transmission fluild should be changed very 20,000 miles or so I think. On brake fluid I'm guilty of letting that go but have recently gotten on top of that. If the brake fluid hasn't been changed/bled in the last 15,000 miles or so, have that changed also. Have all of that done by a Mercedes mechanic you trust, not a local non-Mercedes shop. Also, on coolant, use the MERCEDES coolant, it's a different color (orange). If that's not what's in there, by a few gallons of the Mercedes coolant and either drain/refill the system yourself or have the mechanic do the job when you are in there. I personally strongly recommend AGAINST any kind of power flushing on these cars-- do not power flush the transmission nor the cooling system. TOO MANY TIMES I've seen that power flushing process wash-out seals, weakn seals, and cause leaks in a car that previously didn't have them. These old cars should not be subjected to power processes that put unnatural stresses on system components. I once had a relatively new car powerflushed (the cooling system) and it leaked after that and was very difficult to find that leak for some reason. Finally, while many people swear by synthetic fuel and that it's great, and that this is an area of BIG SUBJECTIVE DEBATE (many people don't agree), there are many people that still agree with me-- stick with the oil this car has run-on for the past 15 or 20 years. The synthetic oil, in my experience, causes more oil leaks in the car. It is too slippery and gets past the old seals. If you are in a warmer climate or only drive your car above freezing, you might just go to good old 20W-50 in there. It's a nice thicker oil that can lubricate those old parts. Othewise, do whatever the owners manual recommends. Some people will really disagree on this and I don't mean to produce a flame breakout here on synthetic oil. I'm just giving my thoughts on this to a newcomer to these cars. enough said....

Here are my thoughts.

First, as a "performance oriented" driver, I never considered MB until I happened to acquire a 560sel, and once I drove it a few days, I realized I had truly been missing something. These (w126 and quite a few other Benzs) are GREAT cars, and even ratty examples (which mine was) can offer lots of driving enjoyment.

For all used cars, you should plan on spending $1000 to $3000 during the first week to month of ownership on items that the previous owner has been neglecting. I have purchased 5 cars in the last 10 years, all hi quality 5-15 year old European cars, and this has held true with all of them. (In most cases, the po thought the cars "needed nothing", as they were willing to live with stuff that I wasn't...)

Recently, I upgraded to a 500sel (1992), and while this is a very different car from the 126, given that they (92-95 w140 cars) are starting to be seen for under $10,000, maybe this is a better choice?

Bottom line is that if you are buying a $50-$90k car for under $10,000, you need to plan on spending some additional money to maintain and fix it. This can be done DIY, but the trick is finding a good source of parts (like Fastlane or (anything but a dealer)), and finding a good independant shop that will work with you on the repairs you can't swing yourself.

Also, if it weren't for this forum, there is no way I could afford to keep these cars. I regularly get guidance that saves me hundreds if not thousands (like my recent tranny - dealer quoted $4500, got it for $1200) of dollars.

-David
92 500sel (so cool)
86 560sel (dead)
85 535i (for sale, really nice, $2900)
93 ZX11 (too fast, can't hear the radio...)

Also, Andrew at Attwood Auto qualifies as knowledgeable, easy to work with, and very honest.

Attwood Euro 602-287-9666

i dont think it is necessarily a warning flag with the owner that they have not done the timing chain. maybe either they do not know it or more likely they dont want the expense. you just need to eval the cars. I would usually prefer an original owner like you have found if they took care of the car over a dealer

Eric, I was actually asking if this was a warning flag for the shop, not the owner. The owner told me he hadn't changed it and didn't know he was supposed to. He takes it in regularly to a place called German Auto Center in Austin for maint. work and has all his papers.

So what I was wondering is the fact that the shop hadn't mentioned it to him when he's at 98k a sign that this is a shop I should steer clear of.

Thanks also for your other tips. I was surprised to hear that I should completely drain the tranny every 20k miles. Duly noted.

~Bill

From my Nichol's/Chilton Labor manual.....you didn't mention the model. so I'll list a few for Timing Chain, replace.
560 SEL--24.3, 560 SL..29.0, 380 SEC, SEL 24.3, 400E 37.9, --all units are hours.

I hope this helps.

The timing chain at least on my 603 looks simple to do, just pull the valve cover off. Break the chain hook the new one up to the old one and spin the engine around very very slowly. The guides are cheap and made of plastic.

As far to the cost of valve jobs I keep hearing $1,500-$2,000. But if you pull the heads yourself you can save a lot. But even at 10k miles a year that is a lest 5 years down the road if not much more. Just keep the oil changed and don't worry about it.

Now as far as changing the trans fluid every 20k it is a very simple but messy job. I hate changing it and will send it out to a shop next time. But if you diy figure $30-40 give or take. No special tools needed very simple.


Also don't forget the brake fluid needs! to be flushed every 1-2 years, again very simple and will cost you less then $10 if you diy. Use Dot 4 fluid not Dot 3

Rear diff fluid should also be changed every 50k or so, again very simple and under $10 if you diy.

Coolant should be changed every 2 years and only MB coolant or Zerox 5 should be used. Pretty simple and cheap under $30.

The 560's have tons of fan belts keep an eye on them. But they look cheap enough, just Gates or Dayco belts any autoparts store should have them.

Other then that the brakes are simple to do just pull the pads out the back of the calipers. Rear discs can be a pain to get off because they tend to rust onto the hub.

Last but not least their is a power steering filter and it and the fluid should be changed every now and then.

Parts and filters can be bought cheaply from Fastlane at the top of this page. Good service and prices. Also use only German filters, Mann, Heignst, Bosch ect. No Fram, STP, Carquest.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Uhh... Zerex G05

Don't forget changing the hydraulic suspension fluid and filter.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL