Are W140's as expensive to maintain as everyone makes them out to be? - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

A. Rosich · #61 12-15-2004, 09:40 AM

There is a post I started on the Featured Cars forum named "W140 vs. W220" where most issues about the difference between pre-95 and post-95 W140 cars are covered.

Check it out at:

S-Class Fiasco: W220 vs W140

I own a 1998 S 500 L with a little less than 30k original miles on the odometer. After owning a W123 and some W124s, the W140 definitely outshines every M.B. I have ever driven (and I have tested quite a few).

Yes, they are not cheap to mantain, but it is not a cheap car to begin with. Yes, the W140 was considerably cheapen after the '95 facelift, but also major production problems were almost sorted out for 97-99. Some persisted forever, like the evap and wiring problems, but others were certaintly cured and fixed.

Also, post-95 models, as they were cheapen, were also simplified in many areas in engeeniring complexity, hence many systems and electrical gremlims are MUCH MUCH cheaper to fix on a post-95 than a pre-95 model. Just compare side to side part PRICES and the NUMBER of parts required to fix an specific job, which I usually do just as a hobby.

pcmaher · #62 12-15-2004, 12:15 PM

I'm curious, lots of people are using the "pre" and "post" 1995 reference. Where exactly does a 1995 model fall?

A. Rosich · #63 12-15-2004, 01:34 PM

Good question. U.S. 1995 models fall in the POST facelit group.

In Europe and for almost the rest of world markets, the facelift started production around july and august 1994, hence you might find facelifted W140s in some markerts as 1994 model year vehicles.

The process of the facelift, as it is the case in most M.B. production cars was gradual and many of the improvements and/or changes were introduced at different times.

The major "look" change (new headlights, new rear lights, re-design side mouldings, new front an rear bumpers and new interior door panel upgrades) was the one that was introduced in the middle of 1994 and for the U.S. 1995 model year.

Other changes, like the electronic odometer, 5-speed electronic auto transmissions, new A/C center dash control panel, new upholstery materials, new colors, new sound systems, xenon-headlamps, parktronic distance control, new infrared remote locking, new light allow wheel designs, etc, etc, etc, where, as said before, eventually introduced during a long period from late 1994 to early 1997.

Most of the changes mentioned on the aformentioned paragraph mostly introduced cheaper and easier to use versions of the previous units, which, by its original glory, were (as the rest of the W140) overly engeenired and overly expensive to fix and/or change.

STORMINORMAN · #64 12-16-2004, 06:54 PM

The friend (female attorney) who sold me our 1991 420SEL in Nov 2000 (106K miles) had been given it by her (multi++millionaire) Father in 1995. When his 1995 S500 was due for replacement, she got it... Tough life, eh?

Since then we have added an additional 40K miles. Service/repairs have consisted of:

1 set of front brake pads & sensors @ an indy $150
2 sets plugs: I switched back to Bosch Supers (@ $0.99 each) after trying the Platinums
2 air filters $30
a $225 30K or major service @ 120K which consisted of a transmission service, a fuel filter, inc. all the inspections & adjustments called for in that service (@ the same indy)
a new set of tires $250
a set of studded snows (used) $100
a 10 disk CD changer (RF, unfortunately), installed $150
my routine oil & filter changes every 5K, say $175 (?)
coolant changes every 2 years, went to G-05 2 months ago $40
replaced all the belts & hoses so I have a spare set to carry in the trunk $100
replacement of a dash light (included in the 30K service)
a couple fusible links & an alloy wheel that has never been mounted $50

Total $ expended over 4 years has been well under a grand & a half, not including insurance or gas...

When her Father replaced the replacement for the W140 (which was an E-Class V8) she called me (as promised) as I had requested a 1st shot at the '95: she said she was never so happy to get a car from her Dad in her life, but that she "...WOULDN'T, JUST COULDN'T, in good faith, EVER SELL ME THAT DAMNED CAR!"

Now THAT'S a real friend!

lizem100 · #65 12-18-2004, 09:07 PM

I was looking in Fastlane for some stuff and had been reading why I should not want a W140 so I looked up the price. The price does not look so bad. Perhaps the shop charge customers full price =$800?

oldsouth · #66 12-18-2004, 09:40 PM

It's not the cost of the evaporator, it's the cost of getting to the evaporator.

Hatterasguy · #67 12-19-2004, 10:04 AM

Figure $100 an hour x 20+ hours. Not to mention all of the clips and little crap that I'm sure they break and need to replace.

JimF · #68 12-19-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizem100

. . . why I should not want a W140 so I looked up the price. The price does not look so bad. Perhaps the shop charge customers full price =$800?

. . . picture? It gives you an idea of why it takes 21.5 hours of labor.

lizem100 · #69 12-19-2004, 12:23 PM

I checked too -20 hrs. Too bad it was not designed to be fixed. Perhaps access from the other side of the firewall would have been better?

Kebowers · #70 12-20-2004, 12:40 AM

Replacement parts costs are shooting out of sight--and lots of parts fail on these cars. Even DIY's are getting hit real hard from now on. The cost of rebuilt or new electronics are soaring even higher--and OEM electronics quality sucks compared to US or Japanese durability. Wiring harness failures are inexcusable for a modern automobile.

I have been a loyal MBZ fan since '78--starting with a 108 280 SE, then W114 250/8, a 380SE gray mkt AMG rocket (by far the fastest car of the bunch), 500SEL, 560 SEL (best car ever had)--then the POS sl-600. My 2 Infiniti Q45's (92,94,both with active suspension) will run with the AMG (155+top), get 20 MPG@70, rarely require anything other than routine service and brake pads, and have convinced me MBZ is a dead duck still flapping around. Go drive the new Q45 and see what $25K less money than a S-500 willl get you. Drive a car done right by performance enthusiasts--not egomaniacs with Alzheimers.

lee polowczuk · #71 12-20-2004, 07:23 AM

I have a link to a post where the 190 evaporator was accessed through the engine compartment firewall.

I wonder if you could do this with the 124? The guy did his in about 3 hours, I think

http://www.2phast.com/190E/default.htm

gerryvz · #72 12-20-2004, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duxthe1

As a mercedes technician I tell everyone who asks to stay away from any 140 chassis car. They are huge money pits. On any given day I can take any random 140 and find 1000$ worth of necessary repairs on the spot. The suspensions ARE problematic with control arm bushings that are underengineered, shock mounts that loosen up and rattle, front springs that break....ect....Add in door checks, window regulators, vacuum pumps, blower regulators, a/c evaporators that are all common problems and you havn't even stopped it from leaking or fixed the check engine light yet. Bottom line is that as someone who intimately knows these cars, you couldn't give me one. They are in my opinion one of the biggest piles of **** to ever roll off a mercedes assembly line. That being said they are and will continue to be the backbone of the independant mercedes repair shops for the next 10 years.

This is exactly the same thing that multiple MB technicians and shop owner friends in Oregon and California tell me constantly! Nice to see independent confirmation.

Cheers,
Gerry

JimF · #73 12-20-2004, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kebowers

Replacement parts costs are shooting out of sight--and lots of parts fail on these cars. Even DIY's are getting hit real hard from now on. The cost of rebuilt or new electronics are soaring even higher --and OEM electronics quality sucks compared to US or Japanese durability.

. . . the car (my car!) is 10 (maybe 11) years old, so you can't expect it to hold more value than it has today (around $22k retail). That plus the current gas prices (in San Diego, 91 oct is still $2.25/gal) contribute to its lowered value. My friend says they are mostly giving them away at the wholesale auctions. But what would you expect for 11 year old car and gas at $2.25/gal?

But I do disagree that you can't get parts for them at a decent price and if you are a DIYer, then it's not an expensive car to own. Of course, I'm biased by my own experience which has been very good. As I've said before, this has been the cheapest MB that I've ever owned.

oldsouth · #74 12-20-2004, 10:37 PM

My experience is limited to American brands like Ford, Chevy, Buick, and Oldsmobile along with Mazda. I usually keep an automobile until it starts giving a good bit of trouble and has some squeaks and rattles. Out of all the brands I have tried, none went much over 100K before I moved on. EXCEPT Mercedes. The '95 S-Class has over 272K so I had no problem buying a '98 E-Class with 100K on it. Both cars are tight, no rattles, and very little repair costs. Dealer service charges are what drives up the maintenance cost. $80/hr labor is too high. Someone with an older Mercedes needs to be a do it yourself type of person. A lot of 140 cars for sale probably need some expensive repair work that the prior owner did not have done.

I don't know about the luxury Japanese brands but I find they tend to copy someone elses car and a lot of times they improve on it. The new Lexus look like a carbon copy of the 140 S-Class to me.

turnne1 · #75 12-20-2004, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kebowers

Replacement parts costs are shooting out of sight--and lots of parts fail on these cars. Even DIY's are getting hit real hard from now on. The cost of rebuilt or new electronics are soaring even higher--and OEM electronics quality sucks compared to US or Japanese durability. Wiring harness failures are inexcusable for a modern automobile.

I have been a loyal MBZ fan since '78--starting with a 108 280 SE, then W114 250/8, a 380SE gray mkt AMG rocket (by far the fastest car of the bunch), 500SEL, 560 SEL (best car ever had)--then the POS sl-600. My 2 Infiniti Q45's (92,94,both with active suspension) will run with the AMG (155+top), get 20 MPG@70, rarely require anything other than routine service and brake pads, and have convinced me MBZ is a dead duck still flapping around. Go drive the new Q45 and see what $25K less money than a S-500 willl get you. Drive a car done right by performance enthusiasts--not egomaniacs with Alzheimers.

You are right in saying the values of the 140's are falling fast....I have in the
last few weeks seen a 1998 S320 for 16,950 and a 1997 S500 for 17,950...both with less than 65K miles.....BUT look at the values of the 126 cars.....MUCH lower.....

as for the Q45....look at their resale value...talk about scary...talk about over 50% depreciation in 3 years...reliable or not the public must think the car is overpriced

Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740i w/sports full spots package