I took the `88 560SEL that I've been considering in for a PPI this afternoon. It was $150 well-spent. This is a taupe model with 98k miles. Very clean exterior and interior except for a 2" spot on the hood where the clear coat has failed. I've mentioned this car recently in a couple other threads.

No cracks in the console, chrome looks good, headlight lenses good, two small dings and the rims need refinishing.

The owner is in his early 60's and this was his wife's car. They always buy a matched pair of MB's. They used to have a pair of the old 6.9's and then drove the pair of 560SEL's for five years before replacing them with two S320s. He had a big folder full of service records on the car.

He told me he's always had it serviced at the German Auto Center in Austin.

Although I wasn't that jazzed about the color, I thought I'd found exactly what I wanted, a late 80's 560SEL that had been well taken care of.

Here's what the PPI revealed:

1. Left front seat bottom spring broken (this one I knew about)
2. Shifter bushings gone, shifter loose
3. One country horn inoperative
4. Blown suspension spheres at the rear
5. Front shocks worn out
6. Cylinder head gasket leaks badly on left and to some degree on the right, too.
7. Power steering box leaks badly and has damaged caster housing bushing
8. Transmission front pump seal leaks and perhaps secondary pump there, also.
9. Pipe just before left center muffler rotting through
10. Sterring shock worn out
11. Electro-Hydraulic actuator of the fuel injector leaks
12. steering pump and low pressure hoses leak
13. Front pads almost worn out
14. Spark plugs worn but doesn't show evidence of oil burning
15. Wipers streak, washers need aiming
16. Noise through speakers when operating electrical components
17. Wheels need balancing
18. Alternator and Power steering belts badly cracked
19. Fuel pump cover falling off

"Overall a car in need of much and soon to be unreliable."

Btw, Ben, the shops owner, did the PPI himself. Really nice guy. He's got a large shop, they've been around since `79, well organized and there were probably 40-50MB's there being serviced. Ben told me that often the owners of these cars just don't take car of them or just don't bring them in unless something breaks.

He was pretty surprised to hear that the owner of this car took the car in every time his wife heard anything out of the ordinary. This car hasn't been driven much lately but how could all these things be wrong on the car and the German Auto Center not know about them?

When I spoke with the German Auto Center originally myself, they told me they never recommend changing the timing chain before 125k unless someone reports a noise. The Barrett book and Ben recommended 100k.

So I have to wonder about German Auto Center. They were trying to sell me a call, too, and I got a bad feeling by the way things were handled. That's why I went to Ben's for the PPI.

This was the first 560SEL I've driven in years. I thought the car seemed a little 'bouncy' on the freeway and the front seat seemed worn. I mentioned this to another SEL driver and he said that's the way these cars are... the seats take a little getting used to. Next time, I'll trust my own judgement.

I noticed the exhaust seemed a little 'throaty' on the way to the shop but I hadn't noticed that on my first test drive.

I'm fairly new to this, I've had Frank Barrett's book for a while now and have read his recommendations on what to look for.

How long do you typically take when test driving a car like this with a private owner? I spent about half an hour going over it beforehand and about 20 driving it. In order to check everything I'd want to check, it would take an afternoon. Usually when you take a car for a test drive, people think 15-20 minutes.

If I was selling a car privately for $5k, I wouldn't want someone coming over for 2-3 hours. I'd be interested in hearing how others feel about this. Any advice would be appreciated.

The good news is that I found another `88 with 130k that's already had the timing chain and tensioners done for $4800. I'm going to drive it on Friday.

Ben said if I brought it by, he'd be happy to go on a test drive with me and give me his opinion without charging me for it.

I don't understand how people buy these cars on eBay and just have them transported without any kind of inspection. Imagine if I'd bought this car on eBay. It would have looked great in photos and a phone call or emails to the owner would have made this sound like an ideal car.

I know some of you have bought out of town cars. How do you coordinate everything? You've got to fly in, rent a car, go test drive the car, get it to a good INDY for a PPI, negotiate a price, arrange to get a cashier's check, etc. etc. and be prepared to write the whole thing off if the car's got problems.

Anyone with tips on this, I'd love to hear them. I'm self employed and free to travel but I don't have an unlimited budget.

My quest continues...

~Bill

The only serious things are the tranny leak and the steering box leak with damage to the control arm bushings. Everything else is normal wear.

Just about exactly the car I would expect for the price -- in truely perfect condition I'd personally ask $6000 or more -- my brother paid 12,000 for his SDL several years ago.

Brakes will last about 20,000 miles on a set of pads (30,000 if you are easy on them), worn pads would NEVER keep me from buying a car!

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Did he do a compression test,and put it up on a lift? sounds a bit high for what seems like a cursory exam.

I bought my '94 E320 off of Ebay from a guy in Austin. I had an agreement that I could have the car inspected by the Mercedes dealership in Austin after I won the bidding but before I flew out. He was OK with this since he was certain the car was in great shape. The dealership came back with their list of issues---a slight oil leak at the head gasket and a fraying wireing harness were the bigger issues. He wanted a second opinion and took it to Ben's Workshop (in Austin). Ben confirmed virtually everything the dealership said. I was very impressed with Ben and his operation. In fact he did the repair work prior to me buying the car.

I also did several other things. 1) I called the Austin police dept to verify the car wasn't stolen, 2) pulled a Carfax report, 3) did a Google search on the seller and 4) talked to Ben and the mechanic at the dealership about their general impression with the car...an "off the record" conversation. After all of this I felt pretty good about what I was buying even before I saw it in person.

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1994 E320 Cab (mine)
2001 Chevy Suburban (wife's)
1995 BMW M3 (son's)
1989 Volvo 740 GL (extra car--for sale)

I understand where you're coming from. Maybe I didn't explain this clearly.

This was an inspection, not a repair estimate. Were there details that would be inexpensive for even a non-mechanic like me to fix? Yeah. But when I'm buying an inspection, I'd want every single one of those details when I went back to the seller to negotiate price. Wouldn't you?

When I wanted advice on buying an MB, I hit the forums. Almost everyone I spoke with mentioned getting a PPI. Ben was recommended by a couple different people for an Austin MB indy.

Ben could have easily suggested I buy this car and pitched me on the idea that if I want a car like this, I need to expect to spend another $5k fixing it up. He could have tried to convince me that if I wanted to, we could do a little at a time and with his help, I'd have a great car.

He didn't. And he didn't try to recommend a car he had or a customer had. He doesn't sell cars. When I mentioned that there was another car I was interested in, he offered to go on a test-drive and give me his opinion without charging me.

Had Ben recommended buying the car but only at a far lower price, I probably would have gotten advice on the forum for each and every item as I'd already done with the problem with the failed clear coat on the hood and the wheels needing refinishing.

As you suggested, there's a BIG difference between what you're seeking and what I'm seeking.

People pay me $175 an hour to write sales copy for them. And they don't even get a printed copy, I email a file to them. Isn't that ridiculous? Don't they know they could buy word processing software for less than $10 on eBay and write it themselves? Does that mean I'm a crook?

Of course not. People are paying for my training and experience.
So, don't discount the value of your own experience and time. I enjoy detailing cars but other than something as simple as changing out an air filter, don't enjoy getting under the hood. Now, taking computers apart and putting them back together again I love. Maybe I should buy a new Mercedes and an 17 year old computer.

Quit worrying about all your friends’ I-told-you-so’s. My experience has been that these sorts are very insecure anyway, and certainly would never take such a chance with such things in life. In general, these sorts rush home every day and lock the doors.

This might be a little off-topic but you brought it up so...

I was in the music biz for 25 years starting at 15 when I was selling vintage guitars to rock stars. Made a bit of money managing British rock bands, quit music when I decided I hated the kind of music that was popular. Sold my house, left the big city and moved to a small town in the Texas Hill country to making my living on the Internet. Two years ago, I married a 25 year old girl from Russia that I met in Germany.

Except for pegging me as one that worries about such people, your 'diagnosis' is right on the money. These people live in fear and the only thing that frightens them more than taking a risk is the idea that someone else might do so and succeed. They'll do anything to stop that from happening.

I eliminate people like that from my life as quickly as possible.

Thanks for all your feedback. I appreciate it.

~Bill

I had a PPI done on my 300SE and the place did a crappy job.

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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

Thanks, Peter. It wasn't worn break pads, the horn or the wheels needing to be balanced that kept me from buying the car. In this case, paying $6,000 or more for a car in better condition would make more sense.

The guy wanted $4995. I went to the PPI knowing I'd need to get the timing chain and all the tensioners done and, at my option, repainting the hood to deal with the failed clear coat and either replacing or refinishing the wheels. Had the PPI result been good, I planned on trying to talk him down to $4500. I was prepared for a tough negotiation because of the guy's personality type.

These other problems on the PPI aren't things I know much about. Given that laundry list of repairs, why would a shop owner turn down potential business and say he doesn't recommend buying the car?

Bill

The compression check was an extra $29 but that he didn't recommend it after seeing what the initial exam revealed and getting my reaction to the results.

It was two hours labor at $75. He drove it, and put it up on a rack and that's about how much time was spent on it. And it probably took him 20 minutes to type up that report after he was done.

~Bill

Cal, prior to it going to Ben's did the seller take the car in himself to the dealer or did you have to arrange for pickup and delivery?

I appreciate the feedback.

Thanks,

Bill

Here's what the PPI revealed:

1. Left front seat bottom spring broken (this one I knew about)
2. Shifter bushings gone, shifter loose
3. One country horn inoperative
4. Blown suspension spheres at the rear
5. Front shocks worn out
6. Cylinder head gasket leaks badly on left and to some degree on the right, too.
7. Power steering box leaks badly and has damaged caster housing bushing
8. Transmission front pump seal leaks and perhaps secondary pump there, also.
9. Pipe just before left center muffler rotting through
10. Sterring shock worn out
11. Electro-Hydraulic actuator of the fuel injector leaks
12. steering pump and low pressure hoses leak
13. Front pads almost worn out
14. Spark plugs worn but doesn't show evidence of oil burning
15. Wipers streak, washers need aiming
16. Noise through speakers when operating electrical components
17. Wheels need balancing
18. Alternator and Power steering belts badly cracked
19. Fuel pump cover falling off

"Overall a car in need of much and soon to be unreliable."

Ha thats nothing! These are old cars my SDL still has a list that long! They are all going to need a bunch of work. Most of those things in the list are cheap and simple. Some are not! I would offer $3k and with the other $2k you can go over it. Some of that is stupid stuff like streaking wipers that isn't even list worthy!

Then again I have a high tolarance level after having been around these old cars for awhile! Keep up the search you will find one!

Inetd is right I have looked at dozens of W126's and they all need work. I have yet to come across a W126 that didn't need much.

I firmly beleive these cars should be a fun hobby first and a car second.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I had a PPI inspection done on a motorcycle, done by the dealership. (I needed this info for a legal case - I am certainly qualified (having owned a mc shop for the last 12+years) to do a PPI...)

The dealership charged $89. The entire report read:

Overall, bike looks good. Unable to start, appears to be dead battery. Cannot finish inspection.

My point is simply that there are some outrageous examples of people doing very shoddy PPI work...

-David

Iwouldn't have paid,

Well except for the cylinder heads leaking if they are cylinder heads and not valve cover gasket leaks, I would consider purchasing this car. You might want to haggle a little bit in light of these findings but these types of problems are what I typically expect in a used car.

John Roncallo

Hey I live in Austin too!

I Bought my 1991 300E from German Auto center in "good" condition.

Exterior and interior were perfect. But I ended up having to replace the head gasket, viscous fan clutch, and the main CIS-E Control Unit.

When you say Ben, do you mean Ben's Workshop on 5th street? That is where I had my head gasket done. He seems like a good guy.

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I love my cars to death but my wallet sure doesn't.

Yes, that's Ben, from Ben's Workshop.

German Auto Center has a black `89 560SEL with new tires the 16" wheels that come on the later S class. It's got 110k and they want $5200. It's got a rust spot on the back window. They said they've done a lot to it but couldn't tell me whether or not the timing chain had been done yet. It's had 5 owners according to the Carfax. I passed on it.

As everyone has made clear, the `88 I took into Ben's does not seem to be as bad as Ben made it out to be. I decided to follow his advice this time. The seller of that car would rather keep it than knock $2k off the price.

What struck me about this was whether or not you agree the car should be avoided, I don't think much of German Auto Center. According to them, the only problem the car had was the head gasket leak. They told me he brings it in all the time and has them fix everything. If his wife noticed a rattle, it went straight to the shop. Ok, who cares about the aim of the wiper fluid but all the belts are cracked, leaks everywhere, rotting exhaust and the shocks are gone all the way around. How'd they miss that?

I'd rather have Ben working on my car than German Auto Center. I can always pop on the forum to get a 2nd opinion before paying for anything expensive.

I'm checking out another one tomorrow and Ben already volunteered to go for a test drive with me and not charge me for it. Maybe I'll own an MB by this time tomorrow.

~Bill