Consumer Reports rips MB S-class - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 11-09-2004, 11:29 AM

According to an article in today's USA Today (09 Nov 2004) titled, "Costly doesn't mean reliable", Consumer Reports ripped the S-class pretty bad. They ranked the S-class in the same catagory as the BMW 7-series. Oh, how low mighty MB has sunk . . . to be compared to a 7-series.

They are now in the "least reliable" catagory. The $16k Hyundai is in the "most reliable" catagory.

Mercedes "officials" have dismissed the criticism offering that their internal tracking "shows improvement across all Mercedes models." and "BMW officials say they are confident their cars will do better in next year's survey."

"'The better measure of reliability is the fact that 72% of the over 2 million Mercedes-Benz vehicles that have sold in the USA since the 1950's are still on the road today,' says Geoff Day, Mercedes spokesman."

The reliability reports were generated by owners of 1997 to present-day automobiles. These are not test, or mfg reports, but owner feedback.

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Sheech! Talk about ostrich syndrome. Geoff did not elaborate and say that probably 75% of the cars on the road are pre-1996 models, cars that were designed by engineers and not designed by accountants.

I'm glad I have one of the last "real" Mercedes that have been made.

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Despite what some might say about the quality and usefullness of CR, I've found their auto reports to be fairly accurate, as to reliability of various automative sub-systems. (A long time ago, when purchasing a used German sport coupe, CR rated the '74 Opel Manta as very highly rated, except for the carburator. Got one, and sure enough, had to replace the carburator in due time. Car gave me good, long use, racking up 180,000 miles before I junked it.)

Pete Geither · #2 11-09-2004, 12:16 PM

Just curious Steve,,, do you have any relatives in western Pa. ?

cdanschwartz · #3 11-09-2004, 04:02 PM

Does the CR report mean that the BMW 7 series and Mercedes S class break down and leave the owners stranded? Or do they mean that some little features break and require repair? Having static in your left speaker is not the same as being unable to drive.

It seems to me that all cars with lots of fancy electronics, some of which include safety features, will require more money and time to keep. But which car would you rather be in when the Hummer driven by some psycho with road rage broadsides you? The S class or the Hyundai?

Charles

#4 11-09-2004, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJG56

Just curious Steve,,, do you have any relatives in western Pa. ?

I don't get it? Is this supposed to be an insult, or an honest question? If it is an honest question, what is the tie-in to the newspaper article? If it is an insult . . . well, I just guess I'm too dumb to see it as such. In any case, as far as I know, I don't have any relatives in western PA. Been a couple hundred years since my ancestors lived anywhere around there, if ever.

ksing44 · #5 11-10-2004, 07:07 AM

When I had my car serviced last week, the guys at the dealer commented that problems with the new cars were related to all of the "gizmos" and that the cars were generally good. They said the Japanese changed everything and that they might not have changed it for the better. They also told me that my car was beautiful and that it was definitely one of the last great Mercedes cars. Hey they even say that stuff in the service department at the dealership. I am glad I have my wonderful W124. If I continue to take good care of it, maybe I will never need to learn about all of problems with those gizmos.

mctwin2kman · #6 11-10-2004, 08:31 AM

I have a new Benz and it is fine as far as fit and finish and reliability. Sure I have had a few services, but hell I get a free Benz Loaner and all the issues are fixed. But yes most of the problems I have heard of on other forums with the newer models is electronics. So far I have had cracked steering wheel switches and a visor replaced since it always turned on the light. Now the hood pad is on its third try to get one that stays on and I have a cut on the door panel leather and a broken seat belt extender. Does not affect the seat belt just makes it harder to reach. Nothing major and it will be all looked at when it goes in for Service next week.

Kestas · #7 11-10-2004, 09:04 AM

Mctwin2kman, it is nice to know you have a fairly new model and a loaner is available when they take care of the problems with your car. But can you envision a time when your car comes out of warranty and you'll have to pay for repairs yourself?... plus the repairs may get more involved over time. These little problems then become more than annoying - they get downright aggravating!

Most of us on this board are used car buyers. Quality and reliability are some of the things that mean a lot to us. New car buyers don't have to deal with these issues because everything is taken care of during warranty. But wait a minute.... now these issues ARE affecting new car buyers because they are taking issue with residual value after the lease is over. The price of used MBs - as well as some other brands - is dropping like a rock because nobody wants to deal with repairs on such a complicated car.

I bought my 95 E320 used. It also ran well and also had good fit and finish. But the things that needed attention and repair were all the 'convenience' features.

The automotive professionals have noticed this trend with Mercedes as long as 15 years ago, where they commented that "Mercedes is shooting themselves in the foot when every year their latest and greatest models are introduced with more gizmos than the previous year's model in the name of 'improvement'. They would be best off spending the money on improving the existing architecture of the base vehicle and making the existing parts with better quality than by adding new 'convenience' features that make the car more expensive to repair."

yal · #8 11-10-2004, 10:16 AM

I'd only buy one in warranty and then only if the dealership was within a mile of my job and treated me nice.
Consumer Reports has been ripping MB a new one for the past 7 years! Things are tough in Germany these days (coincidence?) and I think the strategy they chose actually helped Daimler stay profitable but in the long run its gonna hurt. You can't keep having $60k+ cars rolling into the dealership every other month for a hood pad

Three tries on a hood pad

give me a break! Thats time out of your day each time you have to go to that dealership to replace a stupid hood pad or a rain sensing wiper that comes on without a cloud in the sky

My favorite quirkiness has to do with the spare tire needing a different set of bolts on some MB's, if you try and use the original bolts you will incur $3k worth of damage or some ridiculous amount, apparently its happened a lot to new owners. You need instructions to change a spare tire

Cracks me up everytime!

rdanz · #9 11-10-2004, 10:36 AM

I have owned Mercedes Benz cars for more years than I care to remember oldest being 63,72 78,83, 94 each model I noticed more plastic and yes always some small pain in the ass problem and a few major problems. I have found dealers to be for the most part ripoffs. Friends have newer models and you wouldn't believe the horror stories. For me this will be probably the last Benz as the quality is going down and the prices are going up. Next car will probably be a Lexus as I hear nothing but good things about them.And by the way my 83 SD was the best of them all.

Rockman59 · #10 11-10-2004, 11:02 AM

Does the CR report mean that the BMW 7 series and Mercedes S class break down and leave the owners stranded? Or do they mean that some little features break and require repair?
_________________________________________________________________
Considering the price you pay for a new MB, especially the S class, everything should be reliable. Any new car will need some attention but MB quality has certainly gone down the past 5 years. And check out the used prices....MBs used to hold their value for years. Now when the car is out of warranty nobody wants to pay large dollars for a used Benz because the wise buyers know they will be facing thousands of dollars in repairs for electronics, gagets, and AC issues.

mctwin2kman · #11 11-10-2004, 11:36 AM

Kestas, you are correct. I do not think my W203 is going to be as easy to work on or as cheap for parts as my W201 is! As for resale values going down yes that is a problem, but I did not buy mine for its resale value. I plan to keep it for quite some time and still buy other MB's if I still like the styling and features. At least MB is aware of these issues, a little late but it is better than never, and working to fix them. Of course there fix is to take some options and features away as that will eliminate many of the electronic issues. I guess only time will tell.

Yal, it is actully the third hood pad. They seem to shrink a bit when the get damp and then they pop the plastic clips on the edges. Not dropping onto the engine cover at all just the edges coming away from the hood. I have had it replaced once already and will get it done again next week. Funny the hood pad has been back ordered for the last 4 months. So apparantly I am not the only C Class owner having issues. The SA actually asked me if I washed my engine bay often. I told him I rarely pop the hood and that his Techs have seen my engine compartment more than I have. I also stated I never have cleaned the engine or engine compartment on that car. He was a little boggled by this as he was trying to figure out what was causing it to shrink. Oh well it will hopefully be an updated one that will not do this again. And yeah the loaners are nice and all, they also drop off the loaner and pick my car up as well so I do not even have to visit the Dealership at all. But alas they ended they covered Maintanence program so next time I buy a new one I guess I will change the oil myself... I do not see a reason to pay them $150 an oil change when I can do it myself for $30.

I Love both cars though so only time will tell on what my opinion will be later on another Benz purchase.

#12 11-10-2004, 11:46 PM

Folks, please take CR with a grain of salt. I do not believe CR has the resources to test a complicated car and come out with an objective scientific answer.

A company can not test a $5 toaster on one hand and turn around to test a $130K car. Sorry CR, the skill set is not there. . I understand they are simply collecting and tabulating very subjective data..

That thing called survey and the way that works is: tell me what answer you want and I can make the result come out the way you want. Pure and simple. CR has been playing this game way too long. CR is not credible in my book any longer.

It was the same CR in the early ‘90’s that recommended Chrysler Acclaim as a best buy. And guess what…a friend bought it. The Acclaim is long dead now.

In CR books, if it isn’t Honda, Toyota or Lexus, it’s no good..

Don’t get me wrong; MB deserves its current predicaments. It sells an S-class at 4X the cost of a Toyota camry without 4X the reliability or value.

If I purchase $100+ K car, I just want to put gas in it and enjoy the drive, No more no less. No visits to the dealer and no garage queens either.

I may be long suffering when it come to software bug but I have to room for poor product (mechanical) deficiencies like failed HB, dead windows, and cracked dashboards which MB has been serving of late.

MB get back to what you do best engineering. Please test, test and test before coming out with any new product.

Oh, them dealers, some call them stealership. They must carry 60% of the blame. Dealers charge $100-200 per hour and on top of that need three tries to fix the same darn problem. some dealer Tech are not up to speed in the latest and greatest. I must add that there are lots of fine techs out there, but there are far and in between. Sorry, if I offend some of my good friend on this foroum.

I will happily pay $400/hr to skilled tech to diagnose and fix the problem correctly the very first time for one-third the book time rate.

I enjoy my E-class and I do not care what CR says. I brought my MB for safety, handling and reliability. I have all three now.

braverichard · #13 11-11-2004, 07:26 AM

When consumer reports rates the Hyundai Sonata higher than the S-Class and the BMW 7 Series, it doesn't necessarily mean that the lower ranked cars leave their owners stranded on the road. You have to actually read the magazine to see where the lower ranked cars really failed. However, if a car is ranked so low, chances are that it has been stranding its owners on the road. I've read stories like M-B ESP engaging on a wet surface and refusing to disengage requiring the driver to drive at 20mph for a long distance.

And no, it isn't just the electronics that give issues in these cars. Like the guy with the C230 already stated, such tiny things are going through three hood pads, power windows that don't work or get stuck in between, power convertible tops that don't work, dash panels that crack at 5,000 miles, etc. Overall quality is LOW LOW LOW. On everything. But they're fixing things up right now.

Consumer Reports DOES have the technical ability to test anything on the market. They have several large research bases in which they conduct their researches. The results of the recent vehicle reliability ratings came from surveys completed by over 800,000 people who purchased new 2004 cars. I'd say that's a pretty good sample to work with. And, for those who think Consumer Reports isn't so correct, have you ever been to www.lemonmb.com ? And can you show me such a site for any other vehicle brand(s) on earth?

However, M-B executives are fixing things up right now. Now starting in the fourth quarter of 2004, $60 - $100 from every Mercedes-Benz sold goes towards expenses related to fixing the glitches in these cars. Mercedes-Benz just hired an additional 500 electronic engineers to solve its electronic problems. A recent survey that appeared in the Detroit newspaper showed M-B as having the second highest owner loyalty rate in the industry, right behind Chevrolet and just ahead of Toyota. That means that its reputation is still selling those crappy cars. If they can fix the issues before public perception catches up with reality (usually takes about 7 - 10 years traditionally, but with the Internet these days, it could take just 5 years), they can keep all their customers and their reputation as the best in the world.

cil254 · #14 11-11-2004, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braverichard

. And, for those who think Consumer Reports isn't so correct, have you ever been to www.lemonmb.com ? And can you show me such a site for any other vehicle brand(s) on earth?

Yes, how about this one:
http://www.bmwlemon.com/

braverichard · #15 11-11-2004, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cil254

Yes, how about this one:
http://www.bmwlemon.com/

Oh... I forgot about that site. I read it a long time ago. Thanks for reminding me again. Still, not that I'm trying to put you down, but you have to admit that the scope of the issues on that website don't even approach that of the issues on the MB Lemon site.