According to the EPC the 107.048 is noted as Australia, however in the EPC my 129.067 is noted as USA which is obviously a bit strange as I have one - in the UK!

Just wanted to check and no you didn't say anything daft (English for stupid -just in case). I was referring to the MB description of operation. It's quite contradictory, have a read and it basically explains that the fan rpm will be a minimum of 600rpm but no greater - eh????????

Lea

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'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

Hi Lea...
This is the silly part (call it AR if you want to)... I can't remember seeing the temp above 100C, and do not know if the fan ever locks up. I need to check speed, but do not have access to a tach. With my infrared temp gun, I could not find a point in the cooling system above 97C (hoses, rad, etc), so I do not know if the fan ever locks up. When I speed the engine up above 3500rpm setting still, I think I hear the fan change pitch, which makes me think it IS locking (and what I think I hear is it unlocking at speed), but not really sure. Incidently, my dash temp and infrared gun seem to jive well... interpolated 95C when I made these measurements. Granted, I did not exhaustively measure or test the system, and never before the rad changeout. The only time I have seen the dash temp at 100, was on the interstate, at 75mph, up a 3% or so long grade with AC on... I guess I'm overly sensitive... Or AR as my wife would tell me

Lea,
I went back and re-read that descript... I believe it means 600rev/min, and the "rev" was left out. Good ole southern american anglish, if you know what I mean...

This was copied and pasted straight from my MB maint Library CD; a .pdf file sketch.

Thanks...

AR??????? LOL - please elaborate for your UK buddy....

100C coolant is fine, why would you want to reduce it? Consider that the optimum temperature of the automotive combustion engine (not F1 car etc..) is around 95C, so under a little stress I would consider 100C fine.

Others have reported 120C before the VFC cuts in - this is poor as the Aux fan operates before! Then action is required - ie take recommendations from Jim and others...

With my VFC I can tell engagement condition from inside the car as it's real loud. But on my 190E 2.6 I couldn't! So the only check is by rpm for your car I'm afraid!

Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

Lea,
Thanks for the re-assuring words... Us ole southern hot-rodders get a bit agitated if the h2o gets near boiling... I'm too old school for this hi-tek world. I'm used to 165-175F temps of our old detroit iron... A common sight in our pick-ups was to see half the radiator covered by cardboard during the winter (to get the water temp up enough to have cabin heat).

Oh yeah, AR = anal retentive (politically correct for tight a**), a term commonly used to describe ol' engineers and science types on this side of the pond.

I used to run an old MGB, 1971... Had great time in that old beater! Was my ONLY source of trans for years when I was in my infancy in my mining career. Took it underground once just for kicks... Funny sight, and old MG in an underground mine! The guys on duty gotta good laugh.

BTW, walrus is a nickname for Rory... not too many southern people can say the 2 r's in my name, and it usually comes out "roy"... a friend started calling me "walrus" for no real reason, and it stuck.

LOL - Hi Roy

Now that's much closer to the English I understand and so i I can relate to Roy although Walrus is kind of 'cuddly' - don't get the wrong idea though

AN - ah, now I understand. We use this here with almost the same meaning, however just never seen it written as such... I really must get out more often ....

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

AR... Nice to know there are some universal things out there...

I finally got around to adding a signature to my posts... Nice picture in yours, BTW. I really like the 129's as well as the 140's... classy automobiles.

Jim, Lea, and Phil... Thanks to Lea's assuring words, I'm gonna bow out of this topic. I got road trips to make over the next two weeks, so I'll be out-of-touch for most of the time. Thanks for a very informative (and enjoyable) read... best to each of you...

__________________
RM Smith
1988 560SL

"Where is it again that we are going, and why are we in this handbasket"?

Shame to see you leave Roy but 'a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do' and enjoy the trips of course.

I'll correct myself and say that actually I should have said 90C-95C not strictly 95C so please excuse my last post.

Covering the rad is a bit strange and sounds like a system without a tstate as I would expect the tstat to simply start closing if coolant temperature dropped that much and of course then start to open again - governing the coolant temperature to around 90Cl.

Take care and enjoy your beautiful car... that's what it's meant for

Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

No reply from ZF-Trading.com so I've emailed the UK branch - hopefully we'll see some type of response Monday/Tuesday?

Also, I've had no luck in finding a freebie download of DIN1715. If we can review this spec it may shed some light on the 'GE' and 'AGE' markings?!

Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

Yeah! For the first part of the week, I'll have internet access... Luv wireless!

Lea,
I emailed Jim directly concerning his cool harness... I think Jim has a great product there.

I think I'm gonna install a modified pin in my vcf to lock it full time. I think I can thread a rod of the appropriate diameter, and lock it to the bms so no bending is required (will lock it to the bms, using it for a bridge to extract pin a few thousandths)... Perhaps I can get to this in a couple of weeks when I get off the road.

Oh, and BTW... My name is spelled RORY... Roy is what I grew up with because few southerners can pronounce roar-e...

__________________
RM Smith
1988 560SL

"Where is it again that we are going, and why are we in this handbasket"?

i just read this thread and i was wondering if i have a viscous clutch?how do i fill the cluch and with what fluid?
car is '95 s500

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'95 s500 (bought for wife but can't bear to share!!!) 125kms
'92 legend 180kms
'88 tbirdturbo(fantastic car-only regular maint.)120kms
'87 mustang gt(gone)
'86 tbirdturbo(gone)
'85 mustang gt(gone-but not forgotten)

Hi Rory

Sorry for the name confusion thing . My name is often mispronounced as Leah (Lee-ah) but anyway, I think it's often just my colleagues winding me up more than anything! So apologies.

Hi daddyiojiggy - welcome to the thread. Wow, that must have been a mamouth read if you started from the beginning!

Both the 119.970 and 119.980 have the MB clutch 119 200 00 22 which is identical to mine - not surprising since my SL500 engine is a 119.972 I suppose...

Here's a post I made about refilling over on the SL forum Viscous clutch/fan repair

I used Dow Cow Corning 200 Fluid but the recommended VFC fluid is Dow Corning 211. The 200 has identical viscous temperature characteristics but comparing data sheets the 211 may have better sheer strength and high temperature properties than 200.

Simply remove the pin and use a 5ml syringe, I pumped in around 30ml on my first refill and 40ml on my second - of course the vloume is debatable and so I simply kept filling until it started to significantly tighten.

One obvious thing I have learnt is that if you need to refill, then the clutch has a leak - and I know of no repair. The leak emanates from the centre bearing and over time gives the inside of your fan shroud an unwanted fine coat of silicone!

Hope this is of some use..

Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

A little more news about the bimetal. G.RAU have confirmed that both the TB1577-AGE and -GE are indeed manufactured by them and that the TB1577-AGE is designed to meet DIN1715 TB1577A specifications.

However G.RAU mentioned that the TB1577-GE cross references to their part TB1577B-GE which sounds a little strange to me. I'm awaiting confirmation.

I'll attempt to download a copy of DIN 1715 again, but I'm struggling finding a freebie as I don't really want to spend out 60USD

Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

I received confirmation by G.RAU that their bimetals marked TB1577GE are crossed referenced to DIN 1715 TB1577B.

However we still have no full standard to review the Coefficient of Expansion (CoE) between the A and B specs - although I have found a snippet detailing some specs (in German), see attached. I can't quite understand the left hand column, is it saying that the meterial is different between the two? Is it a percentage/ratio of the composition?

G.RAU's product literature implies the only difference between A and B is simply the stress characteristics.... not the CoE ... interesting.....

I need to translate the DIN spec so another job for latter today...


I'll order my new VFC this weekend (hopefully) and of course will post any findings here too.....should anyone really care...

If the the new VFC allows the coolant to run at 110C as others then guess I'll have to send it back to Benz! I figure if I buy from my local dealer I won't have an issue resolving temperature issues should this be the case - but there is a reasonable price penalty of course!

Lea

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

Although the partial DIN 1715 spec I attached earlier is of poor visual quality, I really should have read it with a little more attention!

At the bottom, we can clearly see the metal composition between A and B is different (Kanthal specs also show this as 0.5Cu is added), however the specific deflection is identical at 15.5 for both. Also, compare this with both TB1577A/B products from Kanthal (155TB1577 and 155CTB1577), these have the a specific deflection of 15.6 each.

More to the point, my VFC has no A marking, G.RAU have confirmed that this indicates it's a B part and so we now know that A=B=15.5 specific deflection or TB1577A-GE = TB1577-GE.

So, one could conclude that although the alloy composition is different between A and B, the deflection is identical and therefore although my car has a different bms to others it's CoE is the SAME, contrary to what others have previously hypothesised!!

Therefore, when Mercedes changed from 119 200 00 22 to 119 200 01 22 on the 500E/E500 they did NOT change the bms because this wasn't required, they changed the airflow/temperature characteristics surrounding the VFC - or/and perhaps the internal characteristics of the VFC. Also, a few posts previous shows how the viscosity of the silicone fluid within the clutch can significantly change with temperature - bringing me back to my original thoughts of VFC fin and cowl design.

The VFC's locking point is NOT solely dependant on the bms, there are many factors significantly influencing this.

If I could get a reply from Sachs I would love to hear what the changes are between our VFCs and the 'Tropical' versions - because my bet would be no change in the bms..however they refuse to answer by email


Lea

__________________
'93 R129 500SL-32
'89 190E 2.6 - sold in 2002

http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg