Good advice... and I did do that.

The first dealership has agreed to pay for flushing. If the head gasket has failed due to a part, then apparently MB corporate pays for redoing it, so they are fine with that too (obviously).

Anything in between and I think I'll have a fight on my hands. They got indignant when I mentioned them not offering to do the valve work (especially since I had specifically asked about other work to do during the job).

The second dealership, on the other hand, made it sound very negligent that they didn't offer to do that work, especially after learning my car has 150K miles on it.

__________________
1992 300E Sedan (Sold)
1999 E320 Wagon (Sold)
1995 E320 Sedan
1995 E320 Wagon

I neglected to notice that you had the head gasket replaced at a Mercedes dealer.

Most people don't seem to know about the warranty that original Mercedes Benz parts come with.

If you buy a part from the dealer, and it fails within a year, then Mercedes will replace that part, even pay for the labor to do so, even if you or anyone else installed it.

I find it hard to believe that a dealer screwed up the installation of a head gasket.

It sounds to me like they didn't properly flush the system out.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

I heard back from the second dealer...

They said the first dealer did not replace the head bolts (!) and that they were stretched, and that this was the likely cause of my continuing leakage.

I was under the impression that new head bolts are standard procedure with a head job. I find it particularly aggravating because I stressed that I wanted to replace whatever parts were questionable since I knew the job was 90% labor. Total cost to the first dealer of replacing the head gasket, radiator hoses, and coolant tank was $1750... not spending another $50 for new head bolts seems ludicrous.

The second dealer also found some pitting on the engine block which they recommended filling in (with welding) and then resurfacing. They didn't feel the pitting was currently causing the leak, but filling it in would be the way to fix it "right" to ensure the job stayed done.

In addition, they recommended a valve job (which the first dealer neglected to do while the head was off... in retrospect, perhaps that's a good thing).

So... the total estimate from the second dealer for head gasket replacement, engine block resurfacing, and valve job is... a whopping $3200. Aieeee!

I won't have itemized costs until after the weekend... but in the meantime does anyone have an opinion on that cost, and whether I should have the additional work done?

The total cost seems absurd to me given the value of the car. But I don't want to get "cheap" now if it does make sense to do the resurfacing and valve job with the head off.

I'm assuming I'm stuck for another $1700 just for the head gasket, so even if the additional $1500 is overpriced, perhaps it makes sense to do it if it helps get me an additional 100K miles out of the engine. That is, assuming it's REALLY fixed this time, and assuming some other disaster doesn't befall me.

Frankly at the moment I feel like telling them to keep the car and leasing a hassle-free new Camry.

__________________
1992 300E Sedan (Sold)
1999 E320 Wagon (Sold)
1995 E320 Sedan
1995 E320 Wagon

You're going to get a lot of hell out of the car. You can put in a new motor (E320 3.2 )for that price. How much do you love your W124? I loved mine, but It was a never ending money pit. If you fix it, and lets say the trans goes out, then you will not be a happy camper. $3200 is a lot, you can use that as a down payment on the Camry.

__________________
1987 mercedes 300E
1995 e320 conversion(hated the 300e grill)
HID/Xenon (D2S)
Keyless Entry
Monochromatic Paint (Custom Blue)
Smoked Tails
Flat Badged (front)
Debadged (rear)
custom "carbon fiber" console
18 inch HP EVO rims
Sold! Now I drive a Monte Carlo SS
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member.../352975_67.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member.../748335_24.jpg

The procedure mentioned by dkveuro sounds about right for what our repair tech did - except I returned twice for reflushes. All covered under the original repair.

A side note - the oil in the cooling system does a real number on the hoses. I replaced ALL the hoses, radiator cap, and thermostat prior to the head gasket repair due to 'sweating' and obvious rubber deterioration. Subsequently, the brand new upper radiator hose blew just before the gasket repair. Carefully monitor the condition of your hoses at this point, and replace them all if you have any suspicions.

Steve

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'91 MB 190E 2.3
'08 RAV4 Ltd 3.5
'83 Lazy Daze m'home 5.7

An update... I finally got my car back yesterday (I should sue for pain and suffering, 3 weeks in a Kia rental).

In addition to redoing the head gasket with new bolts, they filled/machined some pitting in the head, and did the valve job.

It was actually done Thursday night, but I couldn't pick it up, and asked to have someone drive it home to make sure it was still ok in the morning. I called in the morning and got some vague response about doing a coolant flush with detergent "just to be sure". Reading between the lines I suspected some oil showed up in the tank again.

So I picked it up Friday, drove it home (100+ miles) with high hopes and... aaagh. Oil in the expansion tank AGAIN. Not chocolate milk this time, more of a dirty opaque lemonade. So I guess that's an improvement.

I called and talked to the tech who worked on it. He felt it was just oil residue, that it was hard to get it all out. Further questioning revealed he did several flushes but only one was with the engine drain block, and only one with detergent. Not M/B official oil cleaner, by the way, but something from a marine supply store.

The dealer is a 4-hour round trip which would quickly get real old, so... back to the trusty forums and I did just about everything and anything suggested by the various posters, in various combinations....

• Drained the system from both the radiator and engine block drains.
• Removed the expansion tank and cleaned it with liquid Tide and hot water in the sink. Very tricky to clean with all those annoying little chambers in there (presumably there's a good reason for those?) There was significant oil residue in the chambers (this was a new part from the first dealer).
• Pulled the heater hose and flushed that both ways with a garden hose... through the heater and through the engine block. To flush the engine block I used a 7/8" I.D. x 2' Dishwasher drain hose (Menard's, $2.99) which press-fit fit onto the block nicely. On the garden hose end I used a spray nozzle which I held into the Dishwasher hose which provide plenty of seal. See photo below.
• Pulled the upper radiator hose and flushed with the garden hose. I had to plug the attachment point on the engine side or else the water just went through the lower radiator hose and back up and out the upper radiator hose attachment point, and instead I wanted to force it through the radiator.
• Filled with liquid Tide and water, brought the engine up to temp, added more when the thermostat kicked in.
• Drained with the engine running through the radiator drain valve, while refilling the reservoir with hot water. I did this rather than stopping the engine and draining, because I was hoping a steady stream of fluid would keep the oily fluid moving on out better. I figured that stopping and draining with just air replacing the lost fluid would be more likely to leave an oily film behind.
• After realizing that previous drain procedure probably was flushing from expansion tank almost directly to the radiator drain (i.e. I was flushing one hose, doh!), I repeated the hot-engine-running drain, but this time through the engine block drain.
• Turned the engine off and while still hot, drained radiator while pouring hot water into upper radiator hose, again plugging attachment point to force it through radiator and out radiator drain.
• Let engine cool, force flushed with a garden hose through as many hoses and openings as I could easily get my hands on.
• Refilled with plain water, drained hot. Repeated this due to soap suds still evident after the first time.
• Refilled with distilled water (the tap water here is very hard) and about 20% Zerex-05 antifreeze.
• Brought it up to temp, drove it about 5 miles, took a sample from the radiator drain, and topped it off. So far seems ok... fingers crossed.

So on my to-do list:

• Buy new expansion cap, because I'm still getting intermittent collapsed radiator hose when the engine cools. I told the shop 2 or 3 times I wanted this inexpensive part and they STILL failed to get it. I repeated myself because they said they'd "check out" the collapsing hose problem, and I knew from here and my testing that the cap was the problem, so just gimme a new one, it's under $10, sheesh. So now I'll be doubling the price with shipping. Grr...
• Buy new engine drain bolt. It was pretty mauled by the time I got it and the head of the bolt is now stripped. Again, I'm disappointed the shop didn't replace this cheap item as preventative maintenance. Hopefully I can Vice-Grips it out of there ok.
• Since I'm buying some parts anyway, maybe buy a new overflow tank if it's cheap. I didn't even know this existed (it's hidden in the wheel well) but is mandated to be replaced when you get oil in the coolant, according to the MB procedures for cleaning coolant. I'm not sure why it would need to be replaced... if the coolant gets there it's the end of the road for it anyway. Anybody know?
• Drain the 20% coolant again in a few days, or sooner if it gunks up. If it's ok I'll refill with correct 50/50 mix. In the meantime I'm assuming the 20% I have in there now is ok for a few days if I keep an eye on temps? I put only that much in to leave enough for a full fill from the two jugs I bought. The stuff is kind of expensive to flush away.
• I'm also curious as to whether putting a little bit of Tide in there for a few days would hurt anything... my theory being that the soap would help keep any residual oil dissolved in suspension rather than filming out on the parts. I didn't do it because, well, it seemed kind of weird, with people being all religious even about what kind of WATER to use. But, I wasn't getting adverse temperature readings when I was running soap, so it seems like it may be safe, unless it's corrosive or something. Any thoughts on whether this would be a good idea?

Thanks again for all the previous responses... and those in other threads that I searched. This forum rocks!

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__________________
1992 300E Sedan (Sold)
1999 E320 Wagon (Sold)
1995 E320 Sedan
1995 E320 Wagon

Benzwood, I'd refrain from adding Tide to your coolant mix ... better safe than sorry. It may contain something that will damage internal engine components or seals. You have had quite an experience trying to flush out your cooling system. It's sad that the dealer didn't do an adequate job. I'd have a long heart-to-heart talk with the Service Manager expressing your dissatisfaction with their work and insisting on an adjustment to the bill ... as in "no charge" for their incompetence.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle

Glad you got your car back.

Did you have to pay for the job all over again, or did Mercedes warranty the work?

The valve job that was performed - - - did they replace both the valve guides and valve seals?

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

The second dealer warrantied it and didn't charge me any labor, including for the additional valve work. They charged me about $500 for machine shop outsourcing and about $600 for parts.

Parts included 6 each intake and exhaust valve guides and one valve stem. There are no valve seals listed, but I thought those are done as part of the machining? I confess ignorance when it gets to these intricate engine guts.

Overall I believe the second dealer was trying to treat me right and keep my cost as low as possible. This of course after we had some frank discussion about the original $3200 total estimate. My guess is they didn't do much better than break even and were happy to see my car leave.

I will still be talking to the first dealer for some compensation for my additional out of pocket expenses and time. So far they are the only ones getting off easy... they got full (high) price for a quickie botched job.

__________________
1992 300E Sedan (Sold)
1999 E320 Wagon (Sold)
1995 E320 Sedan
1995 E320 Wagon