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  #16  
Old 11-16-2005, 11:36 AM
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The last few posts point out how important it is and how much time is saved when the year and model are included.

That being said, the consensus reached in prior threads is that the M103 chains can go along way before being a problem. The only MB chains that need to be monitored and changed were in the early V8s up through 91.
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2005, 01:53 PM
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The only MB chains that need to be monitored and changed were in the early V8s up through 91.


I thought it was all V8 chains???


Michael
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2005, 03:38 PM
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All these different opinions on aging, timing chains ( how appropriate a name)..Do all MB engines have the same timing chain longevity or are they all different, depending on year and model? Specifically engine #117 series
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2005, 03:53 PM
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I can help you on the M117 engines!

Please check chain stretch by pulling a valve cover and check the oil tubes.. upper guide rails. I think you should do it every 30k after. I think a chain is fairly cheap relative to a valve job plus a broken chain. Most mechanics recommend 100k intervals regardless of engine model.

And if it was my reputation- I'd be saying the samething! I don't think M103 chains last the life of the engine... maybe to the first valve job or so.


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  #20  
Old 11-16-2005, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embe560sl
All these different opinions on aging, timing chains ( how appropriate a name)..Do all MB engines have the same timing chain longevity or are they all different, depending on year and model? Specifically engine #117 series
There's tremendous variation in the chain life of MB engines - depending on the path of the chain, the engineering, single versus double row, etc. An early single chain 380SL was lucky to get 75k without a disaster. On the other hand a 104 motor chain is bulletproof - never heard of a failure of an unmolested factory chain. Most technicians recognize this and advise accordingly. I've never heard of a mechanic with a "one interval fits all" recomendation.

The 119 motors tend to be a lot stronger than the 116/117s but still need upper timing chain rails at maybe 100k/10 years. They're plastic and break aparta and cause havoc.
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  #21  
Old 11-16-2005, 11:22 PM
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What about the 84-85 500SEL's, or the 86+ 420SEL's? Are they double chained?
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2005, 11:36 PM
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In the interests of chain longevity, it depends on the load the chain sees.

On a 2 valve per cylinder I4 motor, the cam lobe ramp feed back is heavy and loads of 70,000 lbs shock the chain at high rpm's.

On a 2 valve I5 or I6 motor, the ramp load feed back is nearly all cancelled out due to an opening ramp is being opposed by a closing ramp.

This is why the early simplex chain on the 380's was so short lived as it was in effect doing double duty in that it was running two seperate 2 valve I4 cams.

Next time you get a chance....use a wrench to turn an assembled cam in a head on a I4 motor...and then try a I5 or I6 motor.

Vous comprenez ?

.
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  #23  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86560SEL
What about the 84-85 500SEL's, or the 86+ 420SEL's? Are they double chained?
Both double row.
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  #24  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:44 AM
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timing chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro
In the interests of chain longevity, it depends on the load the chain sees.

On a 2 valve per cylinder I4 motor, the cam lobe ramp feed back is heavy and loads of 70,000 lbs shock the chain at high rpm's.

On a 2 valve I5 or I6 motor, the ramp load feed back is nearly all cancelled out due to an opening ramp is being opposed by a closing ramp.

This is why the early simplex chain on the 380's was so short lived as it was in effect doing double duty in that it was running two seperate 2 valve I4 cams.

Next time you get a chance....use a wrench to turn an assembled cam in a head on a I4 motor...and then try a I5 or I6 motor.

.
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Speaking of timing, I was just replacing the chain tensioner & rails on my 220d yesterday and was noticed how the cam would kick back when I turned the motor by hand. I'd never seen it so severe in all the Detroit Iron (50's 60's) v-8's I worked on. So I started watching the cam and saw what was happening. Made me glad the chain was duplex. Post's like those above are invaluable.
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  #25  
Old 11-17-2005, 12:40 PM
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Ralph,
The kickback you are experiencing on the 220D is probably from the ramping of the roller on the vacuum pump as it moves along on the cam it rides on. The spring behind it is very strong.
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  #26  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro
In the interests of chain longevity, it depends on the load the chain sees.

On a 2 valve per cylinder I4 motor, the cam lobe ramp feed back is heavy and loads of 70,000 lbs shock the chain at high rpm's.

On a 2 valve I5 or I6 motor, the ramp load feed back is nearly all cancelled out due to an opening ramp is being opposed by a closing ramp.

This is why the early simplex chain on the 380's was so short lived as it was in effect doing double duty in that it was running two seperate 2 valve I4 cams.

Next time you get a chance....use a wrench to turn an assembled cam in a head on a I4 motor...and then try a I5 or I6 motor.

Vous comprenez ?

.
.
You're absolutely right. I've got my 220d apart on top. The flattening is mild. I don't know the history of the car, but the body and interior were well maintained. Don't know about oil changes or the degree of high rpm the motor saw. I also see the kickback when turning by hand with the glow plugs out. Good post.
Ralph
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  #27  
Old 11-18-2005, 03:41 AM
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yeas deanyel you are right,and elau,what dont you like your car?if you dont well chuck it then.but repacing the chain takes me 2 hours.and no one should charge more than 4 hours.I guess your car is rusted throu and is not worth 400-600 bucks. Harald
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  #28  
Old 11-18-2005, 12:46 PM
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Meangrean,
Don't get me worng, I love my 124. It is purely my workhorse, a very dependable one at that. I should have explained it a little better. The car has over 300K on the clock, not sure the exact mileage as I bought it from the second owner 5 years ago. When I bought the car, the odo was broken for years. The guy told me he figured the car had 270K at the time. I replaced the odo from the dealer as Maryland requires a working odo for all out of town cars. Told the dealer to set the new odo at 220K instead of 270K. Now it registers 280K on the new odo.

Back to your question. There are a lot of things needed on the car, and I don't know if it worths the money to have everything fixed. Basically, I will need to spend at least $5K to make the car decent, but the question is whether the $5K well spent on a car worths only $2K? For the money, I probably can pick up another 124 as my workhorse.

Things need to be fixed just to give you a run down:
Tranny leak (this maybe the biggie, as I suspect the tranny needs rebuilt)
A/C needs recharging
Sunroof inop
Oil leak (one quart every 200 miles) at the timing chain cover, this can be fixed if I have the chain replaced
Strut mounts
Engine mounts
Wheels alignment
Serpentine belt needs replacement soon
New paint job

I recently spent $250 at the stealer on two window switches. But talked them into fixing my radio for free (it has not been working for 3 years - orginal Becker GP).

If money is no object, I would love to rebuild the car from ground up as I love the timeless look of the 124. The car has no rust.
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  #29  
Old 11-18-2005, 02:16 PM
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why w

do you think the trany is a goner?

the other stuff is just maintenance items. if it is a good car i would fix it.

tom w
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  #30  
Old 11-18-2005, 03:46 PM
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No, I don't think the tranny is a goner, not yet. It does has cavitation issues when the fluid gets too low. I took it to a tranny shop (AAMCO) and they told me it's going to cost $1,200 to have it fixed. I honestly think it may be as simple as a gasket. Then again, I am no tranny expert.

Engine mount won't be cheap from what I understand, so is the strut mount. As I said, the car will be perfect if I sink about $5K on it. The interior is in good shape, only couple small cracks on the dash. Right now I am not sure what I want to do with it yet. I drive it pretty much everywhere I go where the chance of getting ding up is high, grocery store, mall, and work (for highway driving and leave it at the airport for days). I just drove it from Maryland to Toronto and back in it for vacation with no problem.

I can live with the sunroof, paint, and A/C problems. Main thing is to deal with the mechanical and saftey aspects (engine and strut mounts) of the car.
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