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'86 190E 2.3 -Engine: Possible Head Gasket?
Hey Guys:
I am new to the forums, but not to MB. Have been collecting for a few years now, but never had a big question like this. I am hoping I can get some feedback from a MB Tech. Here is the story (short version). I have a 1986 190E, which before I go any further, I will say, we keep the car more for sentimental reasons than practicality. LOL! Anyway, over the past couple years, we have put alot of money into the car, basically gettting it into tip top shape both mechanically and looks wise. Spent maybe $3k or so. Now, I notice I am losing coolant after a week or two of driving. not alot of miles, so it is a fairly prominent problem. From what I can tell, since there are no visible coolant leaks, I am pretty sure the head gasket may be bad, and losing the coolant thru the exaust, etc. So here is the question: My mech wants to put another motor in the car..for $1800 or so. Isn't it alot chaper just to change the head gasket? I think the reasoning is because the car has 200k miles on it, that a younger engine may be better. but I dont really want to drop $1800 if I dont need to...any feedback would be great. |
#2
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$1800 sounds cheap, especially if it includes the engine. I don't know where you are located, but here in Hawaii, the going rate for a valve/head job is around $2000.
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#3
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Replacing the head gasket is somewhat a simple job on the 2.3 8V motor.
Factory time is 7-8 hrs & all of the needed gaskets/parts should run $150-200
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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES) ASE Master Technician Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times) 44 years foreign automotive repair 27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer) MB technical information Specialist (15 years) 190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold) 1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold) Retired Moderator |
#4
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Took me 5-6 hours on the first 8V I did and 4-5 on the next. Pretty straight forward job on an 8V.
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~Jamie _________________ 2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's. 1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon..... |
#5
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Thanks for the feedback guys. So I am guessing if it really is the head gasket, then why should I drop $1800 to have another engine put in? When I could have them replace the head gasket for about a grand right? by the way, used engines are in good supply local to me, since I live close to a large MB recycle place, who has a ton of 190's crashed and such. But still, if I can have it fixed and running better for a grand instead of $1800, would be nice.
Also to do the head gasket job, would it also be a given that they do the valves too? or not? Sorry to sound like a newbe, but I have not worked on the MB cars yet, aside from minor maintenance. I have not been able to find any books or anything. |
#6
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You may be jumping the gun on needing a head gasket. I thought the same but discoved antifreeze fluid drip down side of transmission. Turned out to be leak wher heater hose goes into the dash radiator. You get to it by taking off the window trim just under the windshield wiper.
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Earl 1993 190E 2.3 2000 Toyota 4x4 Tundra |
#7
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thanks for the advice ejsharp:
I am however positive that it is not the heater core, as the heater core already went bad within the first month of me having the car..LOL! so right now I have it bypassed. Fluid is not even being routed to the area. But thanks again for the advice!! |
#8
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If, IF you are sure it is the head gasket, replace it and take the opportunity to do the head as well. It is worth it. If the compression is good in your engine, do it.
The 190e 2.3 are great cars. Great balance, a drivers car. I miss the old 87 I replaced with the 93 190e 2.6. It was a great running car, fun to drive. It had over 240k miles and just ran and ran. Yes, I had to do a ton of work on it including the heater core, but I enjoyed all of the work on it, even the heater core project. Haasman
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'03 E320 Wagon-Sold '95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex '93 190E 2.6-Wrecked '91 300E-Went to Ex '65 911 Coupe (#302580) |
#9
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Are you sure you need a head gasket? Do you have oil in the coolant or vise versa? Did the engine start running diferently? Are you sure you have no leaks, such as near the heater valve? When my gasket blew I could tell by looking at the coolant and the oil. And I caught mine when it first happened.
And I was losing coolant at one point due to a bad tank and cap! My cap would not seal properly on the overflow, so when the car was parked after a nice run where the engine was at temp and maybe idling enough to get it at the upper range, I would park it and hear the his from the cap or gurgling due to the air leak in the cap. The metal that the cap screws into had no longer sealed to the plastic tank. Thus some fluid on hot days with a hot engine would leak out. Not ever noticeable on the ground but over a week and as my Daily Driver it would lower the tank. I also had a bad radiator as well. But never got drips due to the plastic noise encapsulation panels holding the fluid and allowing it to dissapate before dripping on the garage floor.......
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~Jamie _________________ 2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's. 1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon..... |
#10
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I agree. Make sure you've exhausted all diagnostics that you can do. One more trick is to pull the plugs and check for any that are suspiciously clean. Water (or coolant) sent through the combustion will have a cleaning effect on the combustion area.
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95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K |
#11
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Thanks for the input guys!!
and No. I am not 100% sure it is the head gasket. That is just my best guess, and that of my mechanic after explaining what is going on. I dont know exactly what you mean by "heater valve", because the heater system is not hooked up right now. It is bypassed. I can find no visible leaks anywhere. I have watched the overflow tank again and again at several different times during and after driving, and seen nothing. As far as the look of the oil or coolant, (I am not a mechanic), but my thinking was, if the coolant is leaking into the combustion chamber and being spit out the exaust on the exaust cycle, there would not be any oil in the coolant, correct? As for the problem I have noticed with the hard starting in the morning (even worse if it sits a couple days), the mechanic said that may be due to the plugs being WET from the coolant. Anyway, yes you are correct, I am not positive it is the head gasket. Trust me, I hope it is not. LOL! The only thing that makes me question the head gasket theroy at all is...after I pull in the garage and park it after driving, and I get out of the car, I can smell coolant near the engine compartment!! Don't see any wetness anywhere, but just smell it. and I am not sure, but I think if it was burning off in the engine, I would smell it near the exaust, not the engine compartment? Last edited by mediamagikgroup; 01-19-2006 at 02:09 PM. |
#12
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Well you can get a head gasket leak where it is just oil or coolant into the combustion chamber but eventually they all mix together. Best way to test is to pull a plug after the engine has been off a little while and check the plugs for wetness. Normally if you have coolant leaking in to the chamber, it will also boil the coolant as well. So you would see higher coolant temps as well as slight boiling in the coolant tank. And lots of pressure on that cap. But first you need to check your plugs. And as for coolant smell in the engine compartment, that is normally from a leak and not one into the chamber. Since it is all sealed from there out you should not smell it under the hood.
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~Jamie _________________ 2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's. 1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon..... |
#13
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Thanks MCTwin:
I will try the plug wetness check tomorrow! I do know that prior to the heater core bursting, I used to hear a boiling sound in the dash area (core area)..and there is always pressure on the cap when I check it, even after a couple hours sitting..but I dont know if I would classify it as "alot" of pressure. In any event, I will check the plug for wetness next time after I run it, and see what I find. I guess maybe a couple hours after I shut it off should be long enough huh? Thanks again. |
#14
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Quote:
__________________
~Jamie _________________ 2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's. 1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon..... |
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Jamie
Wow..so I am not the only one that has a burn scar now from that car? LOL! Did the same thing to me. I was stuck in freeway traffic when mine burst and ran down my leg. I had shorts on too, so got a decent size burn before I jumped out! yea, I think over the weekend I will spend some time looking around and see if I can find a leak anywhere under the hood. With the smell of coolant, and the pressure still being there for along time after shutdown, maybe I will be lucky and not have a head gasket problem after all. Best, Larry |
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