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  #16  
Old 01-24-2006, 12:21 PM
LarryBible
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20 50 that meets SL specs is okay, but if your car is diesel you should be using a CI-4 PLUS oil.

Good luck,
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  #17  
Old 01-24-2006, 12:58 PM
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Location: Northern Iowa, southern Minnesota
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We have been using Rotella (non synth) in all our farm engines both gas and diesel for many years now. We buy it in 55 gal drums. I believe it has performed as well as any could, but mind you, we are quite particular about changing oil on a schedule. For diesel tractors, every 100 hours, for the cars, every 3000 miles, etc.

On my 300D, I started using the Rotella synth 5W40 last year and have noticed a reduced oil consumption as a result. I change it about every 5000 miles since it's a highway driver almost all the time.

BTW, my dad bought a new 84 Olds Toronado with a 350 engine and has used Mobil 1 in it forever, (an exception to our usage described above) The Olds has about 310,000 miles and the engine hasn't had a wrench on it yet. Everything else on that car has fallen apart, but the engine is perfect and doesn't leak or use oil at all.
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99 E320
87 260E
12 Ford Escape, sold, forgotten
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06 Passat 2.0T, PITA, sold

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  #18  
Old 01-24-2006, 01:16 PM
BadBenz94's Avatar
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I think what is most important like everyone said is to change it often.

I personally use 15w-50 Mobile1 syn and love it and dont have any problems with it at all even on cold days. My car has 240k miles on it and is quiet as a mouse.

I noticed that MB uses "fleece" filters for all their cars now. Should I use their filters instead?

Chris
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94 E320 with:
18" ///AMG Monoblock II's,AMG Gen II front bumper, H&R spings,500E sway bar, Bilstein sports, Eisemann Exhst, K&N,E500 Headlamps, Crystal Clear Corners, Avantgard Grill ...and more stuff to come! oh yeah 241k miles!!


My Car WOO HOO...... Now SOLD
New car.... 2001 Jaguar XJR!!!!
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2006, 09:12 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Smile understanding oil

I have been misunderstanding oil for years. That is, until I recently graduated from my Harley Davidson course. Oil is rated with numbers that escaped me, except that I knew, if I stayed with 10W40 I was good to go. But not so....here is what I learned, and if this is not new to you, I apologize for the dumbing down and boredom.
The first number on the oil rating coincides with the W. The W does not mean WEIGHT, as I always thought it did. It stands for WINTER. (Actually, it stands for 0 (Zero) degrees F, which occurs in winter time). So if your oil is a 10W40, it has the protection of 10 weight oil at 0 degrees F.
The second number stands for the protection the oil gives at 210 degrees F. So this oil would give the protection of a 40W oil at 210 F, or normal engine operating temp. If you engine gets hotter that 210, your oil will no longer be as effective.
If you engine calls for a 10W30, and you think putting in 10W40 is better protection, you're not. The oil pump of that engine is manufactured to pump 210 degree 30 weight, not 40 weight. The tolerances of new engines are so much tighter, that you need the lighter oil to get better lubrication in these tighter spaces. You could be over taxing the pump and starving your engine with a thicker oil in spaces. You can go down to a 0W30, and that would be better for cold startups. The original spec for my 98 E320 calls for a 0W40. In New England, this good. If I was in Florida or California, I would probably use the 10W40. Hope this helps out.
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2006, 11:00 PM
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SAE grade is just one aspect of motor oil selection and is dictated by expected ambient temperature cold starts especially on the low end. (See your owner's manual.)

The other more critical selection is API specification, which determines the additive package of detergents, dispersants, anti-wear, anti-corrosion, and other addtives.

Modern oils for spark ignition engines have generally seen a reduction in additive concentration over the years and some of the new SM oils may have NO ZDDP antiwear additive. This is probably okay for modern engines that have fewer sliding surfaces (roller lifters, rockers, etc.) but older engines with flat tappet cams and non-roller rockers (Like M103s) can use more ZDDP.

Oils rated for compression ignition engines (currently CI-4 and CI-4 Plus) have more ZDDP because diesels don't have catalysts. ZDDP and some other additives have been reduced over the years in SI engines oils partially because it is believed that their additive combustion byproducts may degrade catalysts.

Most modern CI-4/CI-4 plus are also rated SL, but can't meet the SM spec because they have too much ZDDP - okay for modern engines, but not for vintage engines.

To paraphase a well known political quote: It's the additive package, stupid!

Duke
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  #21  
Old 02-03-2006, 09:50 AM
LarryBible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke2.6
SAE grade is just one aspect of motor oil selection and is dictated by expected ambient temperature cold starts especially on the low end. (See your owner's manual.)

The other more critical selection is API specification, which determines the additive package of detergents, dispersants, anti-wear, anti-corrosion, and other addtives.

Modern oils for spark ignition engines have generally seen a reduction in additive concentration over the years and some of the new SM oils may have NO ZDDP antiwear additive. This is probably okay for modern engines that have fewer sliding surfaces (roller lifters, rockers, etc.) but older engines with flat tappet cams and non-roller rockers (Like M103s) can use more ZDDP.

Oils rated for compression ignition engines (currently CI-4 and CI-4 Plus) have more ZDDP because diesels don't have catalysts. ZDDP and some other additives have been reduced over the years in SI engines oils partially because it is believed that their additive combustion byproducts may degrade catalysts.

Most modern CI-4/CI-4 plus are also rated SL, but can't meet the SM spec because they have too much ZDDP - okay for modern engines, but not for vintage engines.

To paraphase a well known political quote: It's the additive package, stupid!

Duke
A very informative post. Usually folks hash over the same old stuff. The ZDDP additive information is new and helpful, at least for me.

Thanks,
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  #22  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:19 PM
beamus's Avatar
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so with all this information... I have one question ...
1990 300 te in Georgia with about 180k miles.. what would be the most ideal oil. Just changed the oil and was told that 0-30 synthetic was the best, but the valves began to tick loudly.. key point especially when it get hot ( which it does in Georgia)..

I will leave my key board and read....

Thanks
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  #23  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:56 PM
mak mak is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Westfeld .
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A quality oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
Everyone,

The point of "15W40" is not its WEIGHT. The point is that most 15W40 oils are ESPECIALLY FORMULATED for diesels. These oils have additives that disperse soot. These additives will keep ANY engine clean.

The WEIGHT of these oils such as; Delvac, Delo and Rotella T is the secondary issue. For your diesel it would be unwise to change to a different WEIGHT unless it is one of these oil types.

These oils have a CI-4 PLUS rating for diesels as well as an SL rating for gas engines. For your diesel, don't use an oil that does not have a CI-4 PLUS rating.

Changing to a 20W50 oil is unnecessary and will do nothing but strain the oil pump and its drive components and waste fuel. The truckers run 15W40 weight CI4 PLUS oils from Central America to Alaska and typically reach one million miles between overhauls.

You might also be interested to know that Cummins regulates the oil pressure to 15PSI. They have determined that running it higher only wastes fuel.

Have a great day,
Old engines require Anti- wear additive ZDDP more so , Rotella and Delo 15-40 is among the highly recommended oils for diesel and older gas engines .
regards
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2011, 11:34 PM
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IIRC Rotella hardly has any ZDDP compared with the original formula that was available 6-7 years ago. The Aircooled guys loved the original formula but still use it because it still is higher than anything else on the market and the extra detergents really help the non-filtered AC'ed Volkswagens. A few of the real anal folk (mostly Porsche guys) buy some concentrated zinc additive that's super expensive to add to every oil change, right before they send their old oil off to a lab to be analyzed (LOL). Whatever floats their oil boat.
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  #25  
Old 03-31-2011, 01:55 AM
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Opinions on motor oil certainly are like, and can bring out, *******s. But I've never heard a horror story about rotella. Its good stuff for German motors of this vintage. Dino, 15/40, good formula. I ran a couple changes of Penzoil 10w40 that the PO had been using through my 89 300te with unknown mileage (250k+). And while I need to do valve seals, and will probably be pulling the head to check things out, I noticed a difference when I went to rotella. Less leakage, quieter operation at idle/warm and the pressure seems more stable.

Anyone familiar with BMWs will know the M20/M30 engines. The bmw comrades of the M103. Robust, simple, older than humans and truck-like mpg. Know scores of guys in that scene using it. I had a motor from an 88 3 series that I tore down, had machined and rebuilt top/bottom and stroked. Engine had ~200k on it when this happened. Sold the car, but I saw it with the head off for boost a few weeks ago. New owner has the mileage on it up to ~350k. Kept using Rotella and the engine looks good for what it puts up with.
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  #26  
Old 03-31-2011, 09:22 AM
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Location: Southern California
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Here's the latest information on current engine oils based on the most recent API specs, which went into effect in the 2006 to 2007 time frame. The article, which was originally published in The Corvette Restorer magazine starts on page 3.

http://www.westcoastwillys.com/WCW_Sept08_small.pdf

I use CJ-4 in all my vehicles (including my '88 190E 2.6) which range in model year from 1963 to 1991 because all have sliding surfaces in the valve trains.

Contrary to popular myth, current C-category (CJ-4) oil still has plenty of ZDDP. CJ-4 is only slightly less than typical CI-4s from the past, and CJ-4 is more than adequate for vintage engines with OE sliding surface valve trains. SM has a much lower limit than CJ-4, and SM is fine for modern gasoline engines because virtually all have eliminated sliding surfaces from the valve trains, but I recommend CJ-4 for all vintage engines with sliding surface valve trains.

Note that I do not recommend a specific brand - just an API specification - CJ-4. CJ-4s are all basically the same regardless of brand name, so you can buy based on convenience and/or price either a national brand or a house brand.

Duke

Last edited by Duke2.6; 03-31-2011 at 09:48 AM.
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke2.6 View Post
Here's the latest information on current engine oils based on the most recent API specs, which went into effect in the 2006 to 2007 time frame. The article, which was originally published in The Corvette Restorer magazine starts on page 3.

http://www.westcoastwillys.com/WCW_Sept08_small.pdf

I use CJ-4 in all my vehicles (including my '88 190E 2.6) which range in model year from 1963 to 1991 because all have sliding surfaces in the valve trains.

Contrary to popular myth, current C-category (CJ-4) oil still has plenty of ZDDP. CJ-4 is only slightly less than typical CI-4s from the past, and CJ-4 is more than adequate for vintage engines with OE sliding surface valve trains. SM has a much lower limit than CJ-4, and SM is fine for modern gasoline engines because virtually all have eliminated sliding surfaces from the valve trains, but I recommend CJ-4 for all vintage engines with sliding surface valve trains.

Note that I do not recommend a specific brand - just an API specification - CJ-4. CJ-4s are all basically the same regardless of brand name, so you can buy based on convenience and/or price either a national brand or a house brand.

Duke
Finally, an oil response with facts. Thanks. I'll continue with 15-40 diesel cj4.
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1989 300ce 129k
( facelifted front,updated tail lights, lowered suspension,bilstein sports, lorinser front spoiler, MOMO steering wheel, remus exhaust,stainless steel brake lines)

1997 s320 113k (what a ride)

1994 e320 Cabriolet 80k (finally)



1972 280se 4.5 153k Owned for 12 yrs, sorry I sold it


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  #28  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:11 AM
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Shell Rotella simply means OP wants to purchase oil at Walmart.

Mercedes suitable oil must have Mercedes approval printed on bottle, and this one doesn't.
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
Shell Rotella simply means OP wants to purchase oil at Walmart.

Mercedes suitable oil must have Mercedes approval printed on bottle, and this one doesn't.
Rotella and Delvac are rated CJ4 .....case dismissed
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1989 300ce 129k
( facelifted front,updated tail lights, lowered suspension,bilstein sports, lorinser front spoiler, MOMO steering wheel, remus exhaust,stainless steel brake lines)

1997 s320 113k (what a ride)

1994 e320 Cabriolet 80k (finally)



1972 280se 4.5 153k Owned for 12 yrs, sorry I sold it


[/SIGPIC]
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:27 AM
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Some newer CJ-4 oils are suspect since they have reduced ZDDP over the older CI-1 oils. Chevron Delo 400 although CJ-4 has a 1300 ppm zinc. Thats a good level to prevent cam wear. Most SM oils are around 800 ppm zinc. M1 0W-40 is 1100 ppm. However M1 15W-50 is 1300 ppm. I use Delo 15W-40 in my 103.

Last edited by dennish; 04-02-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:27 AM
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