Ticking (lifter?) noise on M112 - new lifters - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leonb · #1 03-14-2006, 03:23 PM

When I bought the 1999 C280 (140 000 km) it had a constant lifter noise, or that is what the merc tech diagnose it as. Whether the car was hot or cold, there were one or more lifters making quite a loud noise.

So, I took the car to a Merc dealer to change the all 18 lifters. The noise was gone for about a week, then it started again. But now it were intermittent. Hot or cold, about 50% of the time when I start the car I will hear the ticking noise. It does not go away after a few seconds (like "normal" lifter on cold morning). It will be noisy for a while - like 30 minites or so, and then will go away.

Sometimes I will start and it will be there, other times it is not there. As I said, it happens hot or cold. I dont have any other problems like low power etc,

Can anyone help?? Is this lifter noise? Why did it not go away completely when replacing the lifters with brand new ones? How can I get rid of the noise, its very irritating and everyone will always ask about the noise...

Thanks

pastmaster · #2 03-14-2006, 03:42 PM

leonb, sorry to hear of your situation because you had it fixed. I think you should give Marvel Mystery Oil a try. You can buy it at W or Kmart, for under $3. for a 32oz. bottle. It works on hydraulic lifters and the valvetrain, piston ring-packs too. It's cheap and won't hurt your engine. Pour it in the crankcase up to 1qt. don't over fill! With the 2nd qt. add it to your fuel 4oz/10gals. for several tanks. Follow the directions on the bottle. Your oil will turn black. You don't have to change it until 1000mi. just to be safe.

If it is a lubrication and cleanliness issue, even though the lifters are new, maybe an oil pressure problem to the cylinder head? Also what type and weight of oil are you using, also the oil filter brand? Believe it or not, it does make a difference.

leonb · #3 03-15-2006, 10:50 AM

I use Castrol Magnetec oil. Not sure what weight, but it is the MB recommended weight here in South Africa.

I dont have compression issues on any of the cylinders, it was tested.

How does the oil reach the lifter in this engine. Is it dedicted tubes, or groves/oil pasages? What could prevent the oil from reaching the lifter?

We dont have Marvel Mystery Oil her in South Africa. What does it do. I'm afriad of using engine flushes/detergents. Why? Well the MB service manger told me that they tried it once on a new AMG merc (not sure what model). The oil was replaced and it ran fine for a while. Without warning the whole engine siezed up. When they opened it up, they saw that some of the gunk (probably came loose after the flush action , i.e. while the fresh oil was inside) clogged up a oil passage. This limited oil to the engine pars and it seized up.

t walgamuth · #4 03-15-2006, 04:27 PM

of oil are you using?

in my 84 500sec if i use 15w40 rotella one lifter will stick. if i use 10w30 synthetic it will not.

tom w

ROGER E. · #5 03-16-2006, 01:39 AM

Any possible oil-related question always brings up countless opinions and here's mine.

First, Mercedes-Benz says no engine flushes or snake-oil should be used. Ever. Further, if your engine has not had a pure synthetic oil (on the MB tested and approved list) since it was new, this might be related to your problem.

Since at least 2001, factory fill on all MBs coming to the US at least, has been Mobil1 0W40, changed according to the FSS at a minimum of 10000 miles. And, even though I know full well that I can keep it in my own M112 powered C320 that long, I change it at 5000 miles.

Additionally, the '05 and later cars have abandoned FSS and gone to a straight 13000 mile oil change using M1 0W40 Extended Performance using a fleece filter.

One last, if your lifter repair was performed by a dealer, you have a warranty on the job so you should go back to complain.

leonb · #6 03-16-2006, 10:30 AM

what I want to know is why they/it are still noisy, although they were all replaced???

And where does the lifter get its oil from?

ROGER E. · #7 03-16-2006, 04:15 PM

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Those are questions for the shop that did the repair.

When my C320 was in the dealer's shop at the end of the 4-year warranty period for it's last free service and inspection (but only 40000 miles or so), I asked the tech who I have known for 25 years whether he thought the valve train was a little noisy. He first said that the V-6s varied a bit. But later he said he had decided to pull the cam covers and inspect the valve train and that if he saw any dithering marks on the cam lobes, he would replace them. He ended up replacing the lifters, the exhaust rocker arms and both cams. It is a whole lot quieter now.

This was all paid for by the 4-year 50k mile warranty just before it expired and I'm glad I paid $2300 (in '02) to extend the FACTORY warranty to 8 years & 100K.

Admittedly, I am very fussy about such things and since I have been a customer at that dealer since about 1974, they tend to humor me. My philosophy is that, as long as someone else is paying, I expect the car to operate perfectly. And, I am planning to move up to a W204 when it's available. All that helps.

leonb · #8 03-26-2006, 12:15 PM

How would one know whether a ticking or tapping sound is a lifter or not.

For example, how does a noisy valve sound.

What else can make a tapping/ticking sound (fairly loud). Keeping in mind that the noise quiets down after about 10 - 20 minutes.

Thanks for the help guys. I'm not going to spend another penny before I'm pretty sure what the noise is. I don't feel like taking the car back to the dealer, as I'm afraid I'll be forced in spending more money without solving the problem.

t walgamuth · #9 03-26-2006, 01:10 PM

you try some mobil one 10w30.

it cured my lifter tapping.

tom w

ROGER E. · #10 03-26-2006, 10:24 PM

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M1 10W30 is not an approved oil for any modern MB. You should be using Mobil 1 0W40 which has been factory fill since at least 2001. Another little manufacturer which has been using M1 0W40 is Porsche in all models. Which includes the Carrera GT, in case anyone thinks their MB needs "thicker" oil.

t walgamuth · #11 03-26-2006, 10:44 PM

but again, it depends on the year, right?

i wasn't thinking of heavier oil, but lighter. but they apparently passed me by on the weights they are and have been designing for.

the older models would need something within the weights of oil they were designed for.

tom w

Ali Al-Chalabi · #12 03-26-2006, 10:54 PM

You can use the Mobil 1 0w40 in about anything. If you look at the spec sheets on it, you will find it has a viscosity as thick as any 40 weight oil when hot as well as outstanding cold weather flow.

ROGER E. · #13 03-26-2006, 11:08 PM

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To a point. A few years back Porsche put out a bulletin approving M1 0W40 for every model back to 1973.5 which was the time mechanical injection was being phased out.

And the oil used in an M112 V-6 should be M1 0W40 or one of the other approved pure synthetics. The early sludging problems in that engine were due to using dino oil on a synthetic change schedule. Purely an MB engineering cockup and in no way reflects on the engine design itself. They paid dearly for that, both in reputation and warranty claims.

t walgamuth · #14 03-26-2006, 11:13 PM

is impressive, the porsche bulletin.

good to know about. thanks

tom w