Mercedes `Most Reliable` German brand - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #46 05-12-2006, 07:33 PM

Purchase a Lexus already. Uncles G35 never acts up buy one of those.

Jim B. · #47 05-12-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabeel

I've been to Europe many times. Just because some brands may share parts does not mean they are the same company. Example: The Lotus Elise shares its engine with the Toyota Celica GT-S. Using your reasoning, Lotus and Toyota must be part of the same company, right?

LOTUS = Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious

Toyota, no problems

Hatterasguy · #48 05-12-2006, 08:18 PM

Doesn't surprise, me Lotus was behind the Corvette's engine back in the early 90's.

I guess they are capible of building pretty reliable stuff.

rchase · #49 05-13-2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueog

I love my mercedes, and not my toyota. The toyota is just a commercial vechicle for work. But this toyota with all the neglect has proven to me why toyota keeps winning the most relaible brand awards. Also it flies through emissions testing also, got it done last month, received a 35 second quick pass on a I/M240 test. But then again for every shocked toyota owner like me, their's a dissapointed customer angry at toyota for false advertising their quality. I think alot of it might just be you're luck of the draw.

Reliability depends on a number of factors. How the car is driven. How it was maintained by the original owners and other factors. Im sure you bought your Mercedes new right? Japanese cars are designed to have gas put in and driven. Mercedes makes a much more complicated car. They are completely different cars built for completely different purposes and are not able to be compared.

Where do you think your Toyota will be in 15 years from now? Do you think it will have its original engine and transmission and 380K on it like my 300SD? I have owned many Japanese cars in the past and have found that one generally throws them away at 275K because they become impossible to maintain. Japanese car makers like American car makers drop parts support for their cars as soon as they can. You can by any part on most any Post WWII Mercedes at the dealer down to an ashtray or knob.

rchase · #50 05-13-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Purchase a Lexus already. Uncles G35 never acts up buy one of those.

A friend of mine has an LS430. Its nice but I hate the mismatched instrument panel and the gimicky dash. My S320 rides better and is more quiet inside. It also has road feel where the Lexus feels floaty and vague with lots of road noise echoing through the cabin from the rear suspenson.

Lexus does make some nice leather though. My friends LS430 has SOFT SOFT leather. BUT I have seen a ton of late to mid 90's lexus cars with cracked and ripped leather. I have seen 1970's Mercedes cars with original leather interiors in near perfect shape.

trueog · #51 05-14-2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

Reliability depends on a number of factors. How the car is driven. How it was maintained by the original owners and other factors. Im sure you bought your Mercedes new right? Japanese cars are designed to have gas put in and driven. Mercedes makes a much more complicated car. They are completely different cars built for completely different purposes and are not able to be compared.

Where do you think your Toyota will be in 15 years from now? Do you think it will have its original engine and transmission and 380K on it like my 300SD? I have owned many Japanese cars in the past and have found that one generally throws them away at 275K because they become impossible to maintain. Japanese car makers like American car makers drop parts support for their cars as soon as they can. You can by any part on most any Post WWII Mercedes at the dealer down to an ashtray or knob.

I'll admit that mercedes parts support is second to none. And yes American manufacutres usually only support their parts until the last model made has had its warrenty expire. So if you own a X car who's production ran from 98-2002 and it came with 4 years warrenty. Domestic makes are quick to dump part production on that car within 5 years of that last year run...so 2007. They say apparently the lower cost non-oem parts are priced so low that it makes no sense to stay in the market(gm dealer told me that).

rchase · #52 05-16-2006, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueog

I'll admit that mercedes parts support is second to none. And yes American manufacutres usually only support their parts until the last model made has had its warrenty expire. So if you own a X car who's production ran from 98-2002 and it came with 4 years warrenty. Domestic makes are quick to dump part production on that car within 5 years of that last year run...so 2007. They say apparently the lower cost non-oem parts are priced so low that it makes no sense to stay in the market(gm dealer told me that).

What the GM dealer did not tell you is they don't want their old cars on the road. They shortsightedly look at new cars as their only profit center. Since they overcharge their customers on substandard service work most customers stop going to the dealerships and on to quickie lube places after about 20-30K of ownership. These owners also look at off brand aftermarket parts because of the overly high prices of new OEM parts.

Looking at the short term can cost you in the long run. That customer that you rip off won't be back for you to do it again. The reason the American auto industry is hurting so bad does not have a lot to do with the cars. Even though they make some boring cars its the way that American car makers try to constantly screw their customers. You get screwed on day one with a poorly designed car thats programmed to 'self destruct' after a certain mileage and then you get screwed every day of your ownership trying to keep your disposable car running.

Mercedes Benz OEM parts are not cheap but at least you can buy them! The cars are designed for the long term so more owner involvement is needed in the car's service and repair. The Japanese and Americans are great at making cars that need little customer interaction. That of course is because of the huge sacrifice you made in the car's longterm survival. I personally don't like the concept of the disposable automobile. Most people don't think about their precious new car being in the junkyard in 10 years.

RobTheMod · #53 05-16-2006, 02:43 AM

The old Benz philosophy, I'm not sure if it's still so, seemed to be, "It will not be cheap, but it will be quite possible to keep this car nearly new for as long as you wish"... Think about it. The finish quality (apart from a small peel in the clearcoat on the roof, my 1981 still shines after 25 YEARS in the AZ desert), the longevity of the engines, the availability of parts for a long time... it seems geared toward either being a prestige car for the lease customer (four-five years of status) or a long-term rewarding proposition for the motivated-to-maintain owner (20+ yrs of presentable, pleasurable use with mostly original major components seems reasonable)... it's a hell of a way to build a car. I've seen pics of your SD, rchase... can you think of *anything* domestically built in 1981-82 which looks nearly as good as our 126s now?

Jim B. · #54 05-16-2006, 02:58 AM

I've got to chime in and agree, right here, that Mercedes truly does offer great support, and just now, with the Classic centers just being done in Orange County and Germany, that the parts and reconstruction center are all for the best.....

We can keep them going forever...with the parts support being there.

In Germany, every 30 year old car qualifies as an "Oldtimer" car, and is no longer subject to the high taxation, and the road is made really clear for the cars to enjoy...

Back in about 1972, or so, I learned, the hard way, that the American carmakers, only kept parts in stock for about eight years or so. And, this makes it really tough to keep a car for longer than that. Of course, now with a few models, like vintage Camaros, Mustangs and such, there is help, but for most of them, you are out of luck,,,,most any four door "uncollectible" cars.

That and the free Roadside assistance program, offered to any MB driver, of any model, no matter how old, and no matter how far down the ownership chain he or she is, is great!

rchase · #55 05-16-2006, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobTheMod

The old Benz philosophy, I'm not sure if it's still so, seemed to be, "It will not be cheap, but it will be quite possible to keep this car nearly new for as long as you wish"... Think about it. The finish quality (apart from a small peel in the clearcoat on the roof, my 1981 still shines after 25 YEARS in the AZ desert), the longevity of the engines, the availability of parts for a long time... it seems geared toward either being a prestige car for the lease customer (four-five years of status) or a long-term rewarding proposition for the motivated-to-maintain owner (20+ yrs of presentable, pleasurable use with mostly original major components seems reasonable)... it's a hell of a way to build a car. I've seen pics of your SD, rchase... can you think of *anything* domestically built in 1981-82 which looks nearly as good as our 126s now?

Hey,

Thanks for the compliments on the SD. And to answer your question I can't really think of any. Mercedes goes "all the way" with everything they do. They don't cut corners on items to save cost. While in the first 10 years of ownership none of this really shows through when you start getting up there in mileage and wear and tear the quality really shines through. One of the reasons why Mercedes cars look so good for so many years is the paint. Its MUCH thicker than the paint on many domestic makes giving it extra thickness for buffing and scratch removal. I have also read that Mercedes uses Glassurit paint which is the same paint that Ferrari uses on their cars. It amazes me that I have a 24 year old original dash with no cracks when I can see 4 and 5 year old Kia's with warped and melted dashboards. The wood is another story but don't get me (an antique enthusiast) started about varnish and wood veneers!

If you really think about it though Mercedes makes the cheapest car to own. Take for example my 300SD. It was probably around 26K new? Its now 24 years old and until just a few months ago was my everyday driver (it may regain that distinction once the new factor wears off on the 140). Over a period of 24 years that original purchase cost is just a little over $1000 a year. If you compare a $24K throw away car you would pay roughly $4800 a year in purchase costs. Since the car only lasts 10 years you have to throw it away and buy another one going through more than $50K worth of hardware in the process. Of course this calculation does not include maint costs or inflation. Not to mention that my 300SD still has value and can still be sold after 24 years. The 10 year old car in the junkyard is not really very saleable other than parts. Many owners jump from car to car in this period and loose value the whole way and lump sum the whole loss into their new loans increasing the real cost even more.

Its sort of like the wristwatch debate. Do you buy a high quality mechanical wristwatch that will maintain its value and last for 100+ years or do you buy a Timex that you wear for a few years and toss in the trash. Unfortunatly society has been leaning towards the Timex end of the spectrum and many cars reflect this. I wear a high quality middle of the road Swiss made wristwatch and have it serviced by a local watchmaker.

Mechanical watches and clocks have become somewhat of a lost artform. I think eventually cars will go the same way and you will see a handful of high quality hand made cars based on older technology.

AF300E · #56 05-16-2006, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

Mercedes Benz OEM parts are not cheap but at least you can buy them!

Hows this, In Oz, an '88 W124 headlight (euro style, haha and out of production) entire assembly with vacuum element for range adjust etc costs $850. A honda accord headlight with jack***** features for a current model car is $750. Makes the benz parts look cheap.

Also, front fender for same car around $200, honda fender $375.

We only think our parts are dear because we hardly ever by any for other brands due to their "disposabilty".

Having said that, some things are dear. Electrical items like tzl units are $6000. but how often do you replace one of those? (unless you love washing your engine bay because you like to jerk off to your mates how tidy it is!! Then you probably do a couple a year

)

Jim B. · #57 05-16-2006, 04:07 AM

Nicely said.

The SD diesel 126 and the Volvo 240 wagons are eternal cars. They just go on and on. The fact that yours have such exalted mileage on them, and that this is unremarkable, just seems to show that they are engineered to really last.

My brother is coaxing along an'82 280ZX Datsun turbo with about 170k and the car just doesn't appear to have been made to last that long. Also he has a '73 Camaro with about 390k on it, and that is a struggle, too, though, it is a lifelong California car and is still going well.

Those big Volvos and MBs are really safe ones too.

I have been kind of tempted to get a late model Crown Victoria, based on long distance cheap to run cars, but a quick glance at them after an old Mercedes, or Volvo (had a 740 sedan), and their is no comparison.

rchase · #58 05-16-2006, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Nicely said.

The SD diesel 126 and the Volvo 240 wagons are eternal cars. They just go on and on. The fact that yours have such exalted mileage on them, and that this is unremarkable, just seems to show that they are engineered to really last.

My brother is coaxing along an'82 280ZX Datsun turbo with about 170k and the car just doesn't appear to have been made to last that long. Also he has a '73 Camaro with about 390k on it, and that is a struggle, too, though, it is a lifelong California car and is still going well.

Those big Volvos and MBs are really safe ones too.

I have been kind of tempted to get a late model Crown Victoria, based on long distance cheap to run cars, but a quick glance at them after an old Mercedes, or Volvo (had a 740 sedan), and their is no comparison.

The Volvo 240 is a well engineered tank.... Volvo's philosophy on that car was keep it simple stupid..... Its very simple if not primitive..... Its pretty amazing though because its a big heavy car that gets 25mpg......

SD's are wonderful cars...... Not that the 123 is bad or anything but I refer to the SD as the "have your cake and eat it too" car..... Where else can you get such a massive car that will last virtually forever for dirt cheap service costs and get reasonable fuel economy?

As for the Crown Vic's they make great beaters from what I understand.... They get a LOT of real world abuse as police cars and Ford has had to keep them up to par for the outrageous things that happens to them in police service..... I have friends that buy ex police cars at auctions for next to nothing and drive them until they won't go anymore.... Cars that were used as detective cars are usually the best... They are not as abused as the cruisers and are usually a bit nicer with more options.... You also don't have to spend the money to "convert them" back into regular usage..... Just don't expect good fuel economy from the big V8's...... While the Crown Vic's won't last as long as an MB you can pick one up for about $500 and then walk away when your tired of dealing with it...... Unfortunatly there are not many Mercedes and Volvos around for that price in good shape.....

Hatterasguy · #59 05-16-2006, 01:40 PM

I buy a large amount of parts for various models of MB's. Frankly I have found the parts to be very reasonable. Interor and trim parts are downright cheap compared to my Toyota. The Toyota dealer wanted $50 for a little cheap plastic tray. I bought a somewhat similer tray from the dealer for my SDL, except it wasn't cheaply made for $30.

MB has some of the best parts support you could ever ask for. I learned this first hand I walked into the Ford dealer recently to get a couple of parts for my dads 94 F150. The treated the truck like it was 50 years old! Almost nothing is avalible from Ford anymore, there attitude is buy a new truck. Bad attitude because my dad will probably buy a Tacoma next time around.

But I can go to the MB dealer and get pretty much any part on my SD which is 24 years old. If they don't stock it it comes right out of NJ in a day or two.

Only a handfull of times I have needed an odd part, and they ship it right from Germany!

Zeus · #60 03-12-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

If you really think about it though Mercedes makes the cheapest car to own. Take for example my 300SD. It was probably around 26K new? Its now 24 years old and until just a few months ago was my everyday driver (it may regain that distinction once the new factor wears off on the 140). Over a period of 24 years that original purchase cost is just a little over $1000 a year. If you compare a $24K throw away car you would pay roughly $4800 a year in purchase costs. Since the car only lasts 10 years you have to throw it away and buy another one going through more than $50K worth of hardware in the process. Of course this calculation does not include maint costs or inflation. Not to mention that my 300SD still has value and can still be sold after 24 years. The 10 year old car in the junkyard is not really very saleable other than parts. Many owners jump from car to car in this period and loose value the whole way and lump sum the whole loss into their new loans increasing the real cost even more.

Spot on.

A friend once asked me why I still drove such an old car - this being my 1989 300E. I basically recounted the same scenario you outlined. He drives a new car, leased. So you pay a few grand down, then $400 a month and then after 5 years, the car is gone. Whereas mine was 18 years old when I sold it a few weeks ago and I got $3K for it - this with a mileage of 333,000 Kms. All original engine and tranny - still working perfectly. I paid about $13K for the car 8 years ago. So - factoring the recent sale price in, I paid a little over $10K net for the car, which amounts to $1,125 a year over 8 years. Add about a thousand a year average for maintenance costs over 8 years, and I'm still FAR ahead of a lease, which will cost you $4-5K minimum for a decent and comparable car, and at the end of the lease you have? Nothing.

I'm loving the E430 and we'll see how she does. I'm not expecting it to be as cheap or last as long as my 300E, but if I get 5 years out of her, I'll be a happy camper.

lol - just noticed the thread date. Ah well, it was a good thread, could deserve another read.