Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone uses engine flushes before oil changes? I usually use a Pennzoil Engine Flush Product. For those that don't know what it is, you simply add it to you're old oil and let the car sit ideling for 10-15 minutes, after which you begin you're oil change and watch the oil come flying out ....usually pretty dark. I've gotton alot of different opinions on it over the last year or so, and wish to know what you guys think about it...

I started using the product after my car's engine felt as if it was being over worked. A mechanic told me to start using it before all my oil changes as it would help flush out any sludge I have built up in my car and help keep it from returning. True Enough after my second engine flush then oil change, my car began to drive like it had turned young again and i actually noticed my fuel economy get noticbly better....

But at the same time some mechanics have told me they would never use the product for various reason, some of which are listed below.

- The product thins the oil out and does not completly drain out during the oil change. It eventually thins out the new oil pre-maturly which prevents the new oil from protecting you're engine during that oil interval. The pre-mature oil break down can last for couple oil changes after the intial flush.

- Another concern a mechanic has brought up with me is the fact this product apparently contains diesel. He told me that I am simply adding diesel to oil and thinning it out and cleaning the engine like a paint cleaner to paint. He told me its never a good idea to add or have traces of a diesel fuel as an additive to oil and let it sit their running for 15 minutes. He told me I am not only cleaning my engine, but the diesel will damage the smaller components inside the engine that the oil is trying to protect and keep lubed....

So what do you guys think of this product? I use it every second oil change, does anyone else use it, and what is the truth about this product? All these companies are pissing me off, they sell a product yet besides simple instructions...offer very little other details.

thanks guys.

A ture "car" person should NEVER need that STUFF! If you change the oil it doesn't need flushed...& as Larry says..."change it HOT & often"

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

Well, in some cases when cars have come in absolutely Caked w/ gunk I'll run a quart of Risolene in the crank case for a couple of hundred miles... does a good job getting the cleaning process started.. I'll follow that up w/ Rotella or Delo 15/40 oil changed ever 2500 or so miles.. Over the period of a year w/ average mileage the internals will look markedly better!

Jonathan

__________________
Blue Ridge Mercedes
Jonathan Hodgman
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning.
Follow Us on Facebook!
Located in the Atlanta area
Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines.
Mercedes Repair Atlanta

I just use DELO 15W40 from Wal-Mart, it has excellent soot dispersion and detergent properties. In fact, I developed a few small oil seeps and started burning oil from the valve seals in my 300E afer a few oil changes with this oil, which tells me it has cleared some solids. Yet it is gentle compared to aggressive engine flushes.

__________________
08 W251 R350
97 W210 E320
91 W124 300E
86 W126 560SEL
85 W126 380SE Silver
85 W126 380SE Cranberry
79 W123 250
78 W123 280E
75 W114 280

Guess you missed the thread a couple weeks ago that linked to
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Mechanics_Tale/Mechanics_Tale_The_Flushing_of_America.S281.A10297.html

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

Not to highjack the thread, but need to clear up what seems to me to be a mis-statement in that article. Flint says that brake fluid flushes were dreamed up by Honda, and suggests they are unnecessary. MB has recommended every-2-year flushing for many years now.

I also take issue with his remark about brake fluid being in a sealed environment. What happens when the fluid level in the reservoir drops due to normal wear of brake pads? The compensating air in the reservoir has to come from somewhere. That air will come with moisture, which in turn gets absorbed by the brake fluid.

__________________
Steve
'93 400E

I learned from my clients many years ago that another way to get smoother performance and more pep out of a car is to wash the windows and vacuum the inside during an oil change. I can't count the # of follow up calls I got stated how much better the car ran after the C service ( oil change).

I see additives and flushes as a waste of money.

__________________
Auto Zentral Ltd.

Funny but true. I once had a supervisor expound on that notion while at a conference for my hospital position I held a few years ago. He related that your car feels so much faster and performs seemingly better when it is cleaned...and that perception is akin to a hospital. If the hospital is always clean and tidy, everyone will think it is a better hospital. Of course, that all equated to him wanting those of us not in the maintenance field to pick up the tissues and such we find.

But, as relatively seasoned as I am, and while I know it has no bearing on the car's performance...a good wash and detail always does seem to make my car feel better.

__________________
2004 Chrysler Crossfire

Same principal holds true for yourself.
You'll feel much better if you shower at least once a week.

But on a more serious note, I would only do an engine flush on a very old engine, that was retrieved from a barn.

__________________
2007 C 230 Sport.

I understand its a waste of money to flush a well looked after engine. But I'm more so wondering if an engine flush is good preventive maintance as it would help signifigantly reduce the risk of a engine sludge problem, if one were to ever occur.... I do my own oil changes, but I've noticed that after I do an engine flush, my car runs alot better for the first couple K's. Also my oil changes are done every 6 000km, which is about 4000 miles.

That stuff is snake oil. I don't use it, never will.
You could eat off the valve trian in my 603, the cam, lifter's, and tops of the valves look brand new after 254k miles.

Thats on straight Mobil 1 for the past 25k miles, no idea what the PO used.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

In the shop we only sell engine flushes on the new 112, 113 motors when they begin to consume excessive amounts of oil. When the FFS intervals get ignored the engines begin to carbon up the piston rings leading to oil consumption. If flushed before the bores get beat they usually can return to service without issues.

As a preventative maintennace it's complete overkill. I wouldn't drive the car with it in the oil either. We run the car for 30 mins in neutral @2500RPM to flush them. The stuff is meant to thin the oil and dissolve gunk, not support your bearings under load.

Just so you know my 1982 300SD reccomends ALL fluids to be flushed every year in the spring. Honda was a very small car company in 1982.

I think it does more harm than good really.... A poorly maintained engine with sludge and varnish in it still runs..... Removing the sludge and varnish could damage the engine further by reducing compression if your sludge and varnish happened to be in an area where it was providing some kind of seal.....

Leave well enough alone..... Change your oil in a reasonable timeframe and leave the engine cleaning to the people who end up doing the overhaul when its time......

Around twenty years ago I was running a mom and pop auto parts store. A fellow came in and bought a quart of engine flush. He looked like the type that would get really p.o. if I warned him about not using it so I kept my mouth shut. The subject car was a early seventies Olds with a 455. It sounded a little ragged, but nothing too alarming. The next day the same guy came flying in the store wanting to kill somebody because he dumped the flush in and drove around for a couple of hours.....until a rod came through the block.

Engine cleaner is kerosene, and shouldn't be used for the same reason you shouldn't use detergent oil in a car that had been run on non-detergent oil. All the crud gets knocked loose and plugs up the motor(esp the oil pump pickup), ergo no oil pressure... and a thrown rod.

Frequent oil changes are best, though I have been guilty of putting a little Sea Foam in the oil to free up lifters and rings. I always worry about reducing the lubricity of the oil. Anyways, just my .02 cents.