Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-26-2006, 08:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Shore, MA
Posts: 200
Need help! Measuring ATF level in '98 E300

I recently purchased a 1998 E300 with 102k miles on it and after some inspection the transmission fluid was BLACK but not burnt. So, after joining this forum and reading the numerous posts on the subject, I concurred that the "722.6's are filled for life" is a crock and changed the fluid & filter myself. I also ordered a new connector plug since that was also recommended on this site and I am very thankful for that since the O-rings on the original had failed completely! When I drained the old fluid (torque convertor and dropped pan) it amounted to a little over 6 liters.

After putting everything back together and adding 6 liters of fluid, I am now at the point of measuring the fluid level with the special dipstick. It seems that I cannot "feel" when it bottoms out because when I push it down the tube until it stops, the fluid level is WAY higher than the 85 degree mark. I am worried that the previous owner may have damaged the stop point in the dipstick tube since the tamper seal was removed when I bought it. I am also assuming that the leaking plug connector is the reason I only drained 6 liters and not the 7.3 or so that others are measuring.

So, the question is, what length of dipstick is inserted in the tube when it bottoms out properly on a '98 E300? I am assuming the tube is a common part for all W210's in '98 and probably '99 so any help from anyone with a matching model is greatly appreciated!

__________________
Scott C.

2006 E320 CDI (120k miles)
FOR SALE: 1998 E300 Turbo Diesel - Black w/Tan Leather - Euro delivery (236k miles)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-28-2006, 08:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
I inserted the dipstick until it hit bottom, and marked the spot even with the top of the dipstick tube. I removed the dipstick and measured the part that had been inside the tube. It measured 31 3/8". You have probably thought of this, but maybe the little black plastic end is bending under when it hits the pan bottom. Rotating the dipstick to a different position may keep it from doing that.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-29-2006, 09:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Shore, MA
Posts: 200
Thank you! That seems to have done it!
__________________
Scott C.

2006 E320 CDI (120k miles)
FOR SALE: 1998 E300 Turbo Diesel - Black w/Tan Leather - Euro delivery (236k miles)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-30-2006, 02:09 AM
GVB GVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 178
Plan on replacing the transmission. They are computer controlled and so it is always adjusting the pressures to make a nice shift for the driver. Basically so you don't know it's going to take a crap untill it does. But, the big failure is the bearings and races they use in the trans. They cant take it and fail. So, plan on replacing the trans and making sure that when you do you make certine that you have the latest brain for it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-30-2006, 07:30 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by GVB
Plan on replacing the transmission. They are computer controlled and so it is always adjusting the pressures to make a nice shift for the driver. Basically so you don't know it's going to take a crap untill it does. But, the big failure is the bearings and races they use in the trans. They cant take it and fail. So, plan on replacing the trans and making sure that when you do you make certine that you have the latest brain for it.
HUH? The guy's not having any trouble but trying to get the dipstick to measure the level of fluid and you're telling him to plan on replacing the tranny? It sounds like he's just taken on one of the best bits of preventive maintenance you can perform on the 722.6, and he'll probably get another 100K out of it...mine's at 133K now and I've driven it hard and it is still performing great after I did the same service at 115K.

Don't listen to people who don't know what they are talking about, like this guy. It is important that you check the level correctly, with the engine running and in park at operating temperature on level ground...as long as you do that you should be all set.

Did you put a pan magnet in if yours didn't have one while you had the pan out?
__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

Last edited by nhdoc; 05-30-2006 at 10:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-30-2006, 10:59 AM
GVB GVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 178
Not trying to get into a pissing contest, just telling you all that the fill for life transmissions are a typical 80,000 trans. It's not the fluid that makes them go out. After you do some homework on them, you will find that they are computer controlled, and they are always adjusting the modulating pressure to give the best quality shift. What does that do... for starters, when you start to have a transmission go out on a conventional trans, you start to get symptoms. Bad quality shifting, slipping, you know, something that you can kinda point at and say..... Hhhmmm, this need to go see a mechanic. But the Computer controlled transmissions fill for life, they dont do that. You do not get a symptom until its too late. MB has had many revisions for transmission modules. The 97 had 5 possible #'s currently. Some you can reprogram, others you have to flat out buy. Oh yeah, and by the way, the early fill for life transmissions, 2000 and under, have faulty thrust bearings and races. So before you come back and tell the guy I am full of it, do some research first, then get back to me.
Oh yeah, usually people who are changing the fluid, they are already getting a symptom, and rather then spending a bunch of money on fluid that's not going to fix it, I tell all my customers the truth, wait till you have to put one in, then change the fluid every 30,000.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-30-2006, 01:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 3,956
There are FAR more of the 722.6 trannys with more than 80K miles on them than there are ones which died at 80K (or under).

I'm also not trying to get into any name calling, but his transmission could go another 100K miles or more without a problem, there are some people on the diesel board with 250K on their originals...just the fact that he's already more than 25% over your estimate of it's life (and I am approaching 70% over) tells me that at least our two transmission dispell your 80K myth.

Again, his question was about fill level, not how bad the transmission is...my experience was there was nothing wrong with mine at 115K but I changed the fluid and filter anyway as preventive maintenance. Afterward I noticed it seemed smoother and I can honestly say after owning nearly a dozen Benzes that this one has the smoothest AT of any I have owned. Sure, mine could die tomorrow...I'm hoping it doesn't but it could...if so I did what I could to prevent it. I only regret I had bought it with 115K miles on it already and assume the fluid was original then. If I had been the original owner it would have been on its second change by then.
__________________
Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

Last edited by nhdoc; 05-30-2006 at 01:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-30-2006, 08:32 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
I know of many, many 722.6's well into the six digits mileage wise and still on their original, or second fluid change.

Like all MB trans I would expect a service life of about 200k-250k out of them.
__________________
2020 GMC Sierra Denali
2007 Tiara 3200
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-01-2006, 12:48 AM
GVB GVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 178
I guess I see lots more Mercedes. The ones I run into 97-2000, 80-100K. About 50% of them, guess what, most have bad bearings.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-26-2009, 01:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wisconsin (Columbia County)
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by e300nocash View Post
I removed the dipstick and measured the part that had been inside the tube. It measured 31 3/8". You have probably thought of this, but maybe the little black plastic end is bending under when it hits the pan bottom. Rotating the dipstick to a different position may keep it from doing that.
Hrmmm...I came up with 28" doing this...so it wasn't inserted far enough. I thought for sure it was in too far when the fluid level was way beyond the 80C full line.

These 722.6's aren't like the Chryslers where you have to check the level in neutral/engine running, are they?

I'm chasing down a delayed/odd 3-4 shift on my '99 with 144k...only happens once its fully warmed up. I have a new conductor plate to install, but want to get the fluid level situation squared away.

Thanks!

Matt
__________________
'99 W210/OM606.962 - bone stock for now.
'94 Dodge/Cummins - NV5600, P7100, ~400hp
'96 Jeep ZJ - Cummins ISB 170/Allison LCT-1000 conversion project basket case
'00 VW Jedi - 345k, bone stock
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-26-2009, 01:56 PM
JRS JRS is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoleshotHolset View Post
These 722.6's aren't like the Chryslers where you have to check the level in neutral/engine running, are they?
It must be in neutral/park, with the engine idling.

And, the fluid has to be at the temperature marked on the dipstick for an accurate reading.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-26-2009, 02:56 PM
CWW CWW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by GVB View Post
I guess I see lots more Mercedes. The ones I run into 97-2000, 80-100K. About 50% of them, guess what, most have bad bearings.
And how do you know this, if you believe there are no symptoms prior to total failure? If there are no symptoms, then how do you know the bearings are bad? This makes no sense, you just contradicted yourself. Are you pulling every customer's tranny and measuring bearing wear? If not, then it sounds like a lot of conjecture...

The two 722.6's I've had have both been great. The earlier 1998 one actually shifts and drives better than the later 2001-build date that I also have. The 2001-build has a harder 1-2 shift, and the 1998 is smooth as butter in all gears. Also, the 1998 has 2X the mileage on it.

I think tranny life is directly dependent on how well the unit is serviced, and on the driving style of the owner. I have two 722.6's, and know lots of people with them, and I've yet to hear of one needing a rebuild under 100k miles. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't know if it's really as much of an inevitable failure as you're making it out to be either.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-26-2009, 03:05 PM
CWW CWW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoleshotHolset View Post
Hrmmm...I came up with 28" doing this...so it wasn't inserted far enough. I thought for sure it was in too far when the fluid level was way beyond the 80C full line.

These 722.6's aren't like the Chryslers where you have to check the level in neutral/engine running, are they?

I'm chasing down a delayed/odd 3-4 shift on my '99 with 144k...only happens once its fully warmed up. I have a new conductor plate to install, but want to get the fluid level situation squared away.

Thanks!

Matt
Honestly, Matt, even the dealers and indys have a lot of problems with filling these properly because it's so confusing and stupid that it doesn't come with a traditional dipstick. Ask SteveB on this forum, he can tell you how to do it right. I thought mine was filled properly, and then when it went into Steve's shop, it turns out it was actually way low on fluid. I had noticed something was wrong, because the bands were acting up on the highway, and the 1-2 shift was hard, after I had a fluid flush and filter change done.

From what I gather from our conversation, when you're filling a 722.6 without a factory dipstick, you aren't really looking for a particular mark engraved on a stick, you're looking for the fluid level to be XX inches from the bottom of the pan. It sounds from your post like you're not entirely sure when you're hitting the bottom of the pan, so that may be part of the problem. Anyway, I would ask Steve. I know he knows how to do it, because he just did mine which turned out to be way under-filled, and by the MB dealer no less.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-26-2009, 03:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Walnut Creek, CA & 1,150 miles S of Key West
Posts: 4,874
The stick is supposed to bottom out and measure the fluid IN the pan at 80C fluid temp. Requires a bit of touch on mine to feel it bottom. The tool itself is close to 48" long.

I've got a mark on mine if you want me to measure it for you tonight but it is prob not going ot do you much good as the tubes could be slightly different lenghts or be inserted differently and a 1/4 - 1/2" difference in lenght would be a lot of fluid under or over filled.
__________________
Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-27-2009, 01:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wisconsin (Columbia County)
Posts: 25
That's really encouraging that the MB dealer techs have a hard time with this.

I went at it again last night after my commute home. The dipstick was not fully inserted. After bottoming it out, I could get repeated results and she's full at 80C. Instead of 28" from stem to stern it's now right around 31" which is what others were seeing.

BIG difference in readings with the engine running too. Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers,

Matt

__________________
'99 W210/OM606.962 - bone stock for now.
'94 Dodge/Cummins - NV5600, P7100, ~400hp
'96 Jeep ZJ - Cummins ISB 170/Allison LCT-1000 conversion project basket case
'00 VW Jedi - 345k, bone stock
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page