Hypothetical Q: Do all W210 cars leave the factory with spring pads? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

uberwgn · #1 07-24-2006, 11:28 AM

Re.: 1999 E300D

Any have an idea? I am getting ready to do a spring swap (H&R -> Eibach) and need to be prepared. The people at Eibach say I will not need any spring pads with their springs. Is this possible

The previous owner of my car reports that he used #5 pads in the front and #2 pads in the rear to level the car and do a minor height adjustment. I am trying to mentally prepare myself for all possibilities.

Thx.

Gilly · #2 07-24-2006, 11:17 PM

I think they all had them, maybe just have a set of #1 pads ready F&R, as in my mind I'd rather have at least a thin pad in there to keep the metal spring off the socket the springs fit in to, for cushioning and prevent metal on metal and rusting.
Gilly

uberwgn · #3 07-25-2006, 07:59 AM

Ahhh, that makes sense. I am trying to be prepared for this spring swap and now need to dertermine if the dealers stock there 5 varying thickness pads. Thanks, Gilly.

Gilly · #4 07-25-2006, 08:09 AM

I don't think they'll be stocking any pads, really. Usually in a case where the dealer is replacing a spring or a pair of them, they just transfer over whatever MB had in there. I have seen (somewhere, I think the parts dept on the parts computer) a system MB uses for determining the number of (pardon the expression) tits the pads are supposed to have. I don't know if this is useful info or not (other than the fact that MB techs use the term "tits" for those small notches). If the aftermarket manufacturer specifies NO pad, I'd still want the cushion in there. OH, MB might also have pads with "zero" tits also. The more there are the thicker they are.
Now you're going to have to figure out how to politically correctly get past the term "tits" on those pads when you're at the parts counter......

Gilly

Gilly · #5 07-25-2006, 08:13 AM

Now that I think about it though, there are no pads on the bottom of the spring on the control arms, so maybe it wouldn't matter on top either. Think about it, or ask the spring manufacturer if there is any concern with not having a pad on top as far as metal on metal contact. They'll probably point out what I just did, none on the bottom of the spring.......
The pads are there to adjust the height of the car exactly where they want it. I would think it would also somewhat insulate the car from road noises.
Gilly

hookedon210s · #6 07-25-2006, 09:44 AM

There must be a pad on the top to receive the top of the spring and insulate the spring from the chassis. No pad on the bottom. Just vary the number of tits. My 210 wagon has H&R springs and I used pads with the most tits front and rear (I believe the max was 4 front and 3 rear. See the pics in my gallery to see the ride height. I believe that the Eibach springs result in a lower ride for a given pad thickness. Mark

uberwgn · #7 07-26-2006, 12:00 PM

Guys, thanks for the suggestions. I did speak with Eibach this AM and he said it's going to be a matter of trial and error and said it's entirely possible the pads already installed (#2 in rear, #5 in front) could be fine. He suggested there's a good chance of this unless I find the ride height too high in front which means I'll need to get thinner pads all around. The Eibach springs should be about 1/8" taller than the H&R (which is fine with me).

Problem is, the diesel engine is very heavy compared to the other powerplants and is the reason I have such thick pads up front. He felt most of the cars would leave the factory with pads, and depending on local bumper height regulations and options on the vehicle, there may be thicker pads in some cars compared to other.

I don't think I am going to be able to pre-purchase more pads without completing the entire installation and determining how things level out and how the final ride height looks.

Gilly · #8 07-26-2006, 05:38 PM

A #2 pad up front isn't exactly a thick pad. The less notches the thinner the pad, I trhink it only goes down to 1 notch, so these are quite thin. Again there is a conversion chart which adds up the driveline and accesories from the factory to determine the thickness of the pad. I'm not sure if this takes into account the stock spring height or not, but ultimately it's so you arrive at the factory suspension height. Is H&R the stock spring? If you are OK with a slightly higher ride height, then just swap the stock pads onto the new springs, or else you can order the 1 notch pads.
Gilly

hookedon210s · #9 07-26-2006, 05:56 PM

uberwgn, are you trying to lower your car, return the car to its original height or what? Since your car now has H&R springs I assume the car has been lowered. Why the change to Eibach springs? Like Gilly says, the manual has a point system that is used with stock springs (which also are color coded based on variations in length) to determine what pad thickness is needed to attain the normal, design ride height. When aftermarket sport springs are used, it is a crap shoot as to how thick the pads should be to deliver the desired ride height (which in any event will be lower than stock). If you want a slammed look with probable tire/wheelwell interference at the front and a great deal of negative camber at the front and rear, go with thin pads. With my 124 wagon I used Eibach springs and went with the thickest pads available and the car is still lowered by about 1" from stock with camber at the front at approx -1.2 degrees and the rear (without an adjustable camber link) at -2.5 degrees. I had to buy an adjustable camber link for the rear to get the camber to an acceptable level for the street. My 210 wagon with H&R springs and the thickest pads available has -1 degree camber front and -1.5 degree negative camber rear. The 210 is really at the limit for acceptable street tire wear. It all depends on what you are after. Mark

Gilly · #10 07-26-2006, 06:31 PM

It sounded like, from his last post, that's he's not really concerned about going up an additional 1/8' with the new springs, so if that's true his camber may be good, better than most actually. But most folks want the tough low-front end look. Oh wait, "slammed", there I B hip now....
Gilly

uberwgn · #11 07-26-2006, 06:33 PM

The car currently has H&R springs + Bilstein sport shocks. The ride is punishing on my local roadways and I'd be happy to pick up a little ride hide/ground clearance. The previous owner had to use #5 pads (thickest) in the front and #2 pads (2nd thinnest) in the rear. He said it took a number of attempts to get the car to a safe ride height and level following the initial installation.

I am going to switch over to the Eibach, retain the short Bilsteins, hope to pickup 1/8" ride height and hopefully a better ride quality on the local streets. Right now, the car is probably 10-15% stiffer than a BMW equipped with the Sport Suspension (for sake of comparison). It's just a bit too much for the horrific roads I drive on.

Car has 18" wheels. The car is perfectly level now.

hookedon210s · #12 07-26-2006, 10:28 PM

From the pictures your car appears to ride a bit lower than mine. I don't believe the Eibachs will get you where you want to go unless they are stock springs. What size and make tires do you run? With low profile tires your ride will tend to be harsh regardless of the spring and shock combination. I know what you mean about punishing ride...I thought my 2001 E55 rode very harsh on US roads (but the ride was perfectly acceptable on German and Italian roads). If I had to live with your roads I think I would either install stock springs (or MB sport springs but you should check with the performance paddock part of this web site to see if they are less stiff than Eibach or H&R springs), leave the Bilstein shocks alone and install uprated (H&R) antisway bars if not already fitted to your car. You will get a much more compliant ride and still reduce the leaning in the corners. I doubt that with your roads you will be happy with the handling/ride compromise offered by aftermarket springs. I definitely don't like floaty/squishy suspensions but I was pleasantly surprised by the handling/ride compromise of my 2001 Wagon with 60K miles with the original springs, shocks and antisway bars. Well controlled (like the old air suspension MB's) but not harsh. IMO much better than my 1991 300TE when it was stock and far superior to my father's 1995 E320T after replacing all the suspension bits with new OE components. Mark

uberwgn · #13 07-27-2006, 11:58 AM

The Eibach should raise the car by .2" compared to the H&R currently in the car. The Eibach is a true rate progressive spring, I don't know if the H&R is. The folks at Eibach felt there would be some minor improvement in ride quality since their spring is progressive.

I realize I won't find a huge change and I feel it's worth $250 to take a shot at it. If it doesn't help, I'll just sell the springs and put the issue to bed. I am not looking forward to this job. However, it may yield some small improvement and that's what I am after.

The car is equipped with the wheels from an E55 (staggered 18" setup, B'stone 750 tires).

Thx.

hookedon210s · #14 07-27-2006, 12:05 PM

I'll be curious to read your results. Mark

uberwgn · #15 07-27-2006, 02:16 PM

Thanks for your interest. I will certainly share my findings whether good or bad.