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Old 08-07-2006, 12:33 PM
Mike Murrell's Avatar
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Join Date: Feb 2000
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Originally Posted by TimFreeh View Post
Absolutely true - but let me ask you a quick follow-up question.

Was the R12 system that you used for baseline comparison and subsequent Freeze12 conversion working properly with a full R12 refrigerant charge when you made your vent temperature measurements?

If the answer is yes I'd like to know why you bothered to switch to Freeze12, if the answer is no I'm not going to accept your anecdotal evidence.

The 2 cases I mentioned dealt with a couple of older 3rd gen. Honda vehicles(1986-1989) that I once owned. Vent temps on like days(humidity/ambient temps) were recorded when R-12 was installed and gauge readings would indicate a fully charged system. Vent temps were in the 43-45 degree range with ambient temps right at 95F using R-12.

These vehicles are prone to developing faulty low pressure switches, especially after 10 or more yrs. of service - sometimes less. They leak and there goes the juice. I happened to have a full case of Freeze-12 available and decided to give it a go as these were old cars(over 300,00 miles) and I wasn't sure how much longer I'd have them in my stable. When I did this switch, Freeze-12 was approx. 1/3 the cost of R-12.

Systems were evacuated and recharged with Freeze-12. In the same weather conditions, vent temps were now 38-40 degrees with the Freeze-12. A year later all was well - same temps. I sold the cars, so I have no idea how that's worked out.

I'm acquainted with a fellow who owns a small Euro repair shop. While I do not condone his full-time use of Freeze-12, he claims that Freeze-12 produces colder vent temps. I do not believe he's gone as far as I did with the before/after data, but he has reported favorable response from his customers. Supposedly, many have reported their units are colder than in previous times when R-12 was in use. I realize this is not scientific, but it's kind of like the world of computer performance. One can view monitors and performance reporting information all day long, but in the end, the ultimate positive indicator is a phone that's no longer ringing.

In spite of all of this. I'm pretty much of the agreement that if you're going to keep a car long-term, R-12 is the way to go.

I was merely responding to the previous "and they're not as cold" post. One should not make such blanket statements.

Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC

Last edited by Mike Murrell; 08-07-2006 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:57 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 231
More info than you'd probably ever want to know about vehicle A/C system CFC-12 substitutes - Most info updated recently

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Old 08-08-2006, 02:09 AM
John Holmes III
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by POS View Post
You guys are nuts. You can use Freeze12 as an add-in to your R12 system - that's what it was made for. People do it all the time.

This can also happen, all the time:

Car goes into shop for a/c work, has been topped up with Freeze12.
a/c reclaim machine hooked up...
Expensive 30lb cylinder of R12 is ruined because of contamination by the Freeze12.

You can also use propane as a add in to a R12 system, until there is a serious fire/explosion. Don't laugh, I know a used car dealer who had a van catch fire because someone filled the system with propane.

Not to mention, the Freeze12 isn't going to mix well with mineral oil in a R12 system.

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