Some background: I've spend the last year buying, fixing, parting out and selling various W123 cars. I'm fine having a nit-picky list of things that need my attention over a period of weeks to months. I'm also fine taking a car off of the road for a repair that takes longer than a weekend.

Fast-forward to this week: I was visiting my indy mechanic the other day shooting the breeze when I commented on the cool S320 he had sitting in the lot. He jokingly asked if I wanted it. Upon further talking he let on that the owner didn't know what to do with it because it needs a new transmission. I told him to ask the owner what the story is. He's going to get back to me.

So what it needs that I know of:

1) Transmission issue. I've done some reading and found that it might be the transmission, or a sensor, or the special liquid-gold priced fluid or...
2) rear subframe mount bolt is broken. See pic below.
3) seat back cover missing
4) radio knob chewed up
5) child safety switch missing
6) interior filthy
7) rear suspension looks squatted down. See #2 above

Did any of the S320s come with the self-levelling suspension? I have a wagon with SLS so I'm not afraid of the system, but I'd rather not have it.

I've been doing some research in the forum and I have to consider that it may need an evaporator coil.

So the things that make it un-driveable are:
1) transmission
2) rear subframe bolt
3) door seal motor? If this dies can I still shut the doors?
4) Evaporator. A man can't be driving a W140 with no AC. Are the replacements an updated design?
5) engine wiring. Shouldn't the 1999s have regular wiring?
6) Head gasket. We have a C280 and are aware of the $1k bill to replace the head gasket when it leaks oil.

What am I missing?

-Tad

__________________
1995 G320
2003 C230 Kompressor Coupe
2005 ML500
2007 ML350

And the pics:

Sub-Frame:
http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MiscCarDocumentation/IMG_1007

Outside:
http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MiscCarDocumentation/IMG_1001

Inside:
http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MiscCarDocumentation/IMG_1002

http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MiscCarDocumentation/IMG_1005

http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/MiscCarDocumentation/IMG_1006

-Tad

__________________
1995 G320
2003 C230 Kompressor Coupe
2005 ML500
2007 ML350

I can offer my opinions on a few items.

First, the S320 is considered the way to if you're going to jump into the W140 chassis cars.

The S320, nor the S420, came with the SLS suspension. I don't think they could even be ordered with it.

If the door closing assist doesn't work, you can still close the door, but you're not going to get the "assist".

The factory replacement, as far as I know, is still the copper / aluminum mix, and I've heard they will still eventually fail.

There is a better aftermarket replacement manufactured by ACE, and it is an all aluminum or all copper unit. I don't remember which. If you use the search feature, I'm sure it has been mentioned many times before.

1999's have the regular "improved" wiring harness.

1999's should have the latest / greatest head gasket which shouldn't leak.

I'm told the 722.6 5 speed transmission costs about $3,500 to completely rebuild, if necessary.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Correction:

The recommended a/c evaporator is made by ACM, and they are a quality unit made in Germany:

ACM Evaporator (124)

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Here's good info on closing assist -

http://www.v12uberalles.com/Closing_Assist_Pump.htm

If the system fails, the doors act like there's no closing assist. The trunk will stay somewhat ajar. You have to manually push in the latch that extends for closing assist or slam the trunk lid really hard to close the trunk fully.

What's the car worth is running condition? Transmission and AC repair at retail rates probably exceed the value of the car. Not to mention the other issues you know about and probably as many you won't know about until you dive into it.

Sixto
93 300SD

From what you've said, it might be tough to fix it up and sell for a profit, as the W140 models are not "hot" on the resale market these days.

But if you are adventurous it might be worth it to take a chance if you can buy it for a rock bottom price, and you are confident you can get it on the road for a minimum expense for repairs.

They give a marvelous ride and comfort and are sooo safe, but pricey to maintain and run. This one may be worse if it's real dirty, and had lots of deferred maintenance

It is much more complex than the W123 cars, which are real sturdy, simple and classic Mercedes cars

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Not to be too nosy, but what's the mileage and price?

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I have yet to find out the mileage and price. I don't know if the evaporator has already been replaced, or what the deal is with the squatting of the rear suspension. It may be just that broken bolt which didn't look like a big deal to extract and replace.

From the interior it looks like it has around 120k miles.

I'm going to talk to my mechanic about any service that he's done to it.

The 320 engine doesn't worry me. Our M104 C280 isn't a speed demon, but it is fine. We'd just like something a bit larger.

The way I see it, $2k seems like the max. Given the issues that are apparent during the visual inspection and the known transmission problem, that puts the max value (for me) in that range.

So, how much of a world of suck would I be in if a year from now the evaporator started leaking? I saw the Mercedes labor estimate of 21 hours. I've removed dash boards from a number of vehicles and while tedious there wasn't anything that was really hard. Just a bunch of clips, screws and wires to label. What makes that job a 21-hour job instead of a 5 hour job?

Thanks for the input, I'll keep you posted.
-Tad

__________________
1995 G320
2003 C230 Kompressor Coupe
2005 ML500
2007 ML350

If it were an easy project your mechanic would have fixed it and sold the car. The reason that it takes 21 hours is because the whole dash and console comes out, the 140 body is not a 123. The self leveling was an option, but the car should only slightly droop. The leveling pump is tandem to the power steering pump. Considering what it would cost you would be lucky to break even. I would spend the $150 and buy the 140 DVD, there are no paper manuals.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/

The 140 is built like no other car I have ever seen. The level of fit and finish are amazing. Due to this you don't find the exposed screws and easy to remove plastic parts like many dashboards you have run across. I removed my instrument cluster recently to change the bulbs and looked in the hole after I removed the cluster to find it packed with electronic modules and sound deadening materials. The cluster itself had computer grade gear and sprocket self guiding connectors on it. Without the correct documentation to remove the dash you might as well use an axe because of the damage you will do.

What options are not on the S320's that your glorious S500 has?

My everyday driver is an S320 and its an absolute pleasure to drive. It has plenty of power for highway cruising (unless your one of those v8 ego people) and its comfortable and has been absolutely trouble free for me. Most S320 owners were smart enough to avoid the useless hydropneumatic suspension so you are probably ok there.

If you can get the car for a low enough price I would go ahead and do it. The transmission overhauls can be had cheaper than the $3500 mark if you shop around for a good independant that does enough volume. The interior can be brought back somewhat with the use of the "Leatherique" products.

Keep in mind that the W140 is just another car. Many uninformed people will give you the common myths about 140's being expensive to maintain and having ghosts in the machine. Like any vehicle with the three pointed star on the hood you have to shop around for the best deal on parts. They are very complicated cars but beyond that there is plenty of informaton on how they work. I own a 1982 300SD as well and the 1999 S320 that I drive is on a total different level of quality than the 1982 car. The 1999 reminds me of a bank vault on wheels. It gets a constant 23.9mpg in mixed driving and has a 600 mile range on long trips.

Thank you, Robert.

I'm aware of post w126 changes that happened, seeing as I do have a W202 C280 sedan. It is nothing like the W123 except that I find that it has beefy parts like the W123 has instead of go-cart parts like I find on friend's vehicles.

I honestly find that the c280 has enough power. While I'd love to have 400hp at this point I'm more than happy having just enough power to do a brake-stand (which the C280 will do). We have enough traffic here that my 300TD can out-run the pace of stop and go.

I'll see what the lady comes back with. She might want $12k for it, or she might want what she would get for a tax write-off.

-Tad

__________________
1995 G320
2003 C230 Kompressor Coupe
2005 ML500
2007 ML350

Not sure why you would want to do burn outs in a luxury car but ok

If they come back with 12K forget about it. You can get a 1997 in reasonable condition for that much.

You want enough "wiggle room" to absorb any hidden issues with the car. A good rule of thumb is to take the fair private party used value (sorry a mechanics shop is not a dealership) and then start deducting the FULL RETAIL value of the repairs on the car. Be as brutal with that calculator as a dealership service department. When you start negotiating base your negotiations from those numbers and demand some wiggle room on top of that for problems with the vehicle. If your lucky and resourceful you will end up with a cheap car. If your highly unlucky and unresourceful you will at least end up with a car you can resell for what you have in it.

If the owner is smart they will liquidate the car for whatever they can get for it or just repair it. But you never know they might still be making payments on the car and owe a lot of money. Something else to keep in mind. If the transmission went out and they could not afford to fix it what else might have stopped working on the car that they did not repair?

Heh, I didn't mean that I was going to be doing burnouts, just that that is usally a good indication of "enough" for me.

Also, the mechanic is a good friend. He's not going to be fighting me. I'd be buying from the current owner. I'm not going to be impulsive on this one. I have enough cars to drive, and while we were looking for an E-Class, this S might fit our needs/wants once it has a good transmission in it.

-Tad

__________________
1995 G320
2003 C230 Kompressor Coupe
2005 ML500
2007 ML350