Considering a 1996 S420.... should I steer clear?
 

I found a local 96' S420 at a independent Mercedes used dealer/service shop. I have heard horror stories with high $$$$ maintainence on the 92-94 S-Class sedans, but wondering if the 95 and newer models were any better. What major issues tend to crop up on the 1996 S-Class models? Do they also have the "prone to failure" A/C units that require the entire dash to be removed if it becomes broken? Below is the ad for the car. I have seen it in photos and it looks showroom new. NO DEFECTS. Is it worth the asking price? Thanks in advance! Photo link may work..... http://www.benzhaus.com/images/carpics/113-1.jpg
http://www.benzhaus.com/images/carpics/113-2.jpg
http://www.benzhaus.com/images/carpics/113-6.jpg

1996 MERCEDES BENZ S420
Miles: 146,000

Color: WHITE

Features:
*BLUE LEATHER INTERIOR
*SUNROOF
*BOSE SOUND
*ASR TRACTION CONTROL
*LOCAL TRADE IN
*MAJOR SERVICE
*ALL SERVICE RECORDS


Price: $12,500

Not worth that kinda cash, it's a 10-11 year old vehicle.

You might want to check your figures. My 1999 Bluebooked for right around $19,900. While the car in question is older and with higher mileage $12K is not outrageous for one of these cars.

Don't believe the scare stories that you hear about the 140's. While they do cost more than the average car to repair its not a Honda we are talking about here. Its an S class one of the best cars in the world. Many people believe when Mercedes designed the 140 they had sights of the car competing with Rolls Royce.

The 140 has legendary build quality comparible to no other production car made. Its ride quality is equal to if not better than some of the new S class cars. Its sound insulation is better than the current model cars. (Mercedes stopped using the double paned glass in the S class in 1999).

Essentially your getting a lot of value for your money and the car's resale value reflects that. One of my best friends drives a brand new Lexus LS430 and my 1999 S320 is quieter and has a more luxurious ride and better road feel.

If your looking at 140's go late model 1996 and newer. There are a lot of differences between the earlier models and the older models. Many owners of the older models love their "gadgets" that Mercedes deleted from the cars to enhance their reliability and claim the interiors are better. Thats a subjective thing that you will have to look at and evaluate on your own. Mercedes eliminated a lot of the wiring issues in the cars in their late production and fixed a lot of other flaws with the cars. The later models may have a few less of the gadgety features but you get a wonderful Bose Audio system and glass moonroof (earliers have the metal ones). The later models also have a more updated exterior and interior with more up to date colors (no more two tone plastic trim and outdated zebrano).

When have you ever seen a vehicle sell for Blue Book? Get serious.

$12500 retail is maybe $6000 at an auction.

rchase,

The Bose audio systems were available from 92 thru to 99 on the W140s...in fact the 92-93 year was the best for the sound because its before MB changed the EQ.

Hmmm,

Dunno about that..... I have never been impressed by any Becker headunit......

What are the specs on the early Bose systems by chance?

All Mercedes are not cheapies; are still worth some $$
 

I don't agree that the $12,500 price is that high, if the car has been well serviced and is in impeccable condition. Of course, that is a dealer starting price and he may sell it for $10K - $11K, but the idea that everyone has to buy their Mercedes at some wholesale price level is ridiculous!! If the car has the inherent and real qualities, then it is worth more dollars; everyone can't go to an auction and bid low on something that may have some real problems and require the dollar difference to fix it up. Also, everyone is not a DIY, so they have to try to find a car in excellent overall condition and perhaps buy an extended warranty if they wish. I think the lowballers in the forum are just trying to provide a basis for their own low offers to sellers, but it is not a valid approach overall. If you have a really good Mercedes, it should sell at least at the average retail level and still be a good deal for both seller and buyer.

None of these headunits in the W140 power the whole system anyways and the after 94 they were still Becker headunits....it is the amp in the back which does all the powering and EQ'ing.

Specs im not sure...I know it still had the 11 speakers but MB lowered the bass levels in later years due to complaints of too much BOOM.

In my friend's 92 400SEL it is labeled BOSE on the center channel speaker atop the mirror area.

NADA Retail for that car with the mileage is $13,450

Blue is not a common interior color. I would avoid it personally. Tan or grey is the way to go because as the car ages you have more options in the event that you need to replace interior trim items. Even if you want to replace the parts with new parts the 10 years of sun fading make a color match difficult and new parts stick out like a sore thumb.

Garbage in garbage out. A crummy signal amplified is still a crummy signal. :) I got curious and swapped out my original radio for the Audio 10 in my 126 and noticed a lot better sound quality. Then again the Europeans are a bit more picky than the American market. There are people out there that actually like the boomy sound of those GM delco radios. <gag>

My 99 has the rearview speaker as well.

Hmmm I think they could probably still stand to lower the bass on the system. Its too much at the center "default" position. And ironically this is coming from someone who has a high wattage subwoofer on his Bang & Oulfsen system at home.

The Bose is "ok" but my personal favorite is the Dynaudio system that Volvo used in the C70 convertible. It had adjustable dolby pro logic and was great for a convertible as it simulated the sound of a closed cabin with the top down.

It really depends on the car. Many cars sell for over book value and many sell for under. Book value based on what the "average" car might be like. There are cars that are below average and cars that are above average and hence the price variations in the marketplace. To one buyer dried out leather seats and a dirty interior might not be a big deal. To another buyer it could be a dealkiller. There is a balance between the owners tolerance of faults in a vehicle and its price.

Many buyers have this bizzarre notion that no matter what the asking price of a car they are "going" to get something off just because they feel as though they are entitled to it. On a paticularly nice car these buyers "negotiate" themselves right out of a car if the seller know's what they have.

I have sold a couple of cars and priced them at what I wanted for them. I did have to deal with the cheapskates that wanted a free car but eventually found someone who recognized the value of what I was selling at the price I was selling it at.

Just because your not willing to pay the sellers price does not mean they are not going to sell it to someone who is willing to pay their price.

Oh and to answer your question I have seen cars sell for way above Blue book in my former career. You would be surprised at how many buyers will sign on the X on your dealsheet after the first writeup and drive off happy as a clam in their new to them highly overpriced used car. We used to call those deals "pounders" and the customers "lay downs". In some cases the numbers that we used to write up the deal were random and pulled out of the sales managers head.

Speaking of auctions. You do realize the cars that the general public sees at the public "wholesale" auctions are the ones the dealers have already picked over right? If there is a $6000 S class at auction its there because even the buy here pay here lots did not want it.

Come on - a 96 with 146k miles, white with blue, ASR, a 722.6 transmission in it's first year, asking $12,500 - this is no contest. That's a car that you wouldn't want to buy at any price. There are too many other nice cars out there.

I would not buy and probably many other members of this website probably would not either but NEVER underestimate the buying power of an uninformed buyer. The main killer for me would be the blue interior.

I would rather a 96 over any of the earlier cars any day. ASR and 722.6 transmissions are repairable. In 5-7 years when the interior wiring starts to deteriorate as the engine wiring did because of the extra heat your going to have some expensive if not impossible repairs on your hands. If it costs $3500 in for an A/C evaporator I wonder what it would be to take the car apart and rewire the whole car? One has to wonder if the owners will spend the money or if there will be a lot of cheap used 140 parts in the future?

Not talking about public auctions, I have connections to dealer auctions. If you're smart enough to use these type of forums and be out there, chances are you know someone somehow, that has a license.

Sure if a vehicle is in high demand people will pay more (that's a given), but for a '96 S420... that price is too much for what I've seen around my area. Dealers markup to markdown. It's a common vehicle that's overpriced in my area.

$8900 for a 1998 740il. $7600 for a '95 S500. Obviously they'll have issues, like anything used/old.

You're obviously informed such as I and look for deals and know how to shop.

They've already started to show up around me. A chum of mine was offered a '92 or '93 300SE for $2800...

I'll agreee that the '96 and up are the way to go if you really want a W140. Wiring harness quality was improved and as the years went on, the evaporators were updated from the factory so the chance of needing replacement is far less. I had a '95 S420 that I purchased from a customer of mine which, while had been excellently maintained, still required fairly hefty infusions of cash at times. I do like them, however and have tossed the idea around of getting an S600 (because if you're going to pay W140 maintenance costs, you might as well go for it all and get the V12!). And believe it or not, the V12s are extremely stout engines. I've never seen one with major mechanical issues, they're just never stressed. However, with the 600, your best bet is to find a mint '92 which has seen the proper updates (evap, wiring harness, etc..). They have the highest horsepower ratings (408hp) versus 402 for '93 and 389 for subsequent years.

But generally speaking, getting into W140 ownership is akin to :behead:

I have seen a lot of auction cars. Not really my forte'. Even at the dealer auctions you don't get a lot of time with the car if your even lucky enough to get it out on the road. I have seen and driven a lot of used cars and easily get annoyed by owner neglect.

I recently saw a beautiful low mileage Ferrari Mondial in a rare Azure Blue that I would have loved to buy. When I saw the previous owner had used duct tape on the top and was using bungee cords to hold one of the latches in place I could not even consider the car anymore. If you can't afford a $1800 convertible top you probably can't afford the $12K service appointment either. Other than the top the car was perfect but the make shift repairs spoke volumes about the original owner's care of the car.

Its not a Chevy but a Mercedes.

As we all know, the worst thing is a cheap Mercedes.

Not always. The condition of a car has nothing to do with its price. I have bought mint condition cars from older people who just want to get rid of the cars quickly because of a death in the family. I have also looked at cars that were priced extremely high and that were in extremely poor condition mechanically but had a nice spit and polish job and presented well.

My, my, my. Thanks for all of the replies. I was not expecting so many differnet responses.

Not to sound standoffish, but one that has be baffled is the one about the negatice comments on the "blue" interior. I think it is a matter of personal taste and not a reason to discard or degrade this car. I actually really like the interior color on this car, but it would be nice if it were a slightly darker shade of blue. My current Mercedes has blue interior and I like it very much. I do not think the interior color would stop me from buying it. If that were the case, I would never had mentioned the car here.

Funny- I have heard the statement- "cheap Mercedes is the worst Mercedes". Not always true. I paid only $1000 for mine about a year ago (including delivery) and have had no major issues and it has never left me stranded (knock on wood). Occasional stalling when hot, but it always restarts and I have been told it was a vacuum issue. Tranny is still strong and engine still runs well, despite 267K miles. This 96' is priced at $12K and while that may be pocket change to some "money fortunate" people here, it is not pocket change to me and I would have to have the car financed.

At any rate, from what I have gathered, it seems like the 1996 and newer models up to 1999 seem to be decent cars now.

I am still undecided though, because there are other cars I am considering (brand new and used), but saw this MB and thought it looked nice and priced decent. I thought that service records and current maintainence was a plus. BTW - I looked it up on KBB and PPV (private party value) for that car is $9700, so the $12K price does seem rather steep. I like to get cars for at least the PPV and not the retail value.

Thanks again in advance. The advice was most appreciated. I will keep you posted.

You're right - you should buy what you like especially if you're going to keep it a while. But blue interior does have a resale implication. It's virtually extinct (or perhaps actually extinct) in new cars for a reason - it's not very popular.

Avoid Mercedes altogether; "Problem City"
 

If I were you, I would avoid Mercedes altogether. I had a gas one some years ago, a 1988 300 CE. Great looking car, but too many problems, and at low miles. At just 85k, the transmission seal went ($500), the oil seals were leaking ($600), the a/c didn't work, etc. I swore I would never have another gas Mercedes, leaving the window open for a diesel, which I'd alway heard good things about.

I recently bought a 1991 300d. Of course, the a/c didn't work, a nice $1200 repair problem that I was able to fix myself with a lot of work. Then the
O-rings to the injector pump leaked which caused me a lot of problems getting fixed, but I almost didn't mind that repair, it's just something that needs to be done, and the car is 15 years old. I went to have the car aligned last week, turns out it can't be done until the center link is repaired, $280. The mechanic told me Mercedes cause CONSTANT problems. I asked, "What kind"? He says, just like the ones you're having. Soon, it'll probably need new tie rod ends, then he named a few other parts. I asked him about the brake squeal, he said Mercedes and Volvo specialize in brake squeal, and have brake and rotor problems (they can only turn the rotors one time I think, before needing to replace them).

The power steering unit leaks. I think a seal kit is about $400 to have installed, or I can have just the one culprit seal fixed for about $200. The radio's and speakers are absolute garbage and need replaced. The car is on it's THIRD dampner and tensioner. At 90k???

I want to ask you one question.... why do you want to complicate your life?
Buy Japanese, they're nearly problem free. If you need the 3 pointed star, buy one and glue it to the hood of your Toyota Avalon. And the repair prices are less for the few times they do need repaired. A Honda Accord, Camry, Acura TL, etc., they wouldn't even be squeaking at 90k. I'm assuming with the exception of a required timing belt change and other normal maintenence, those Jap cars wouldn't have cost a dime in repair costs at 15 years and 90k.

I admit, my Benz gives a nice quiet ride (when on the hwy, around town it's a bit annoying being that it's a diesel), and I certaily enjoy 36 mpg out of such a heavy car, but I get really bent out of shape when it causes me repair problems ..... at only 90k miles. Age causes some problems, dryrotted seals, but not things like a/c problems and tie rod ends, etc. There's just no excuse for such things, from a company that advertises their cars as "legendary". Legendary cars are the ones on the roads, not the ones in the shop.

For now, I'll keep my 300d and muddle my way through a few more problems, but if causes me too many more, it's back to Jap for me.

1991 300d, 93k

Mercedes Vs. Japan
 

I have this debate daily with a friend who drives three Japanese wagons. He buys them with high miles and puts money into them. Then he puts in 2K stereos on top of the 4k to 5k in replacements to get them running right. He loves them and they're good cars but my 1988 300 CE moves better and handles better at speed and has better balance. I appreciate the debate but for me there is no contest. I prefer the German design over the Japanese design. The Japanese designs are at best watered down copies of the Mercedes designs. And this is true for many cars. I have yet to put money into the big gas guzzling coupe I bought with 110k on the clock for 2 grand. It runs really well. Tie rod ends are cheap by the way. Even the good ones from Lemforder. Some seals are not a big deal, are they? Mine leak but they dont drip. And most parts can be sourced for a deal at places like Arizona ********. Front end alignment is always an issue. It's because of how people drive a Mercedes and on what types of roads they're punching it. My opinion is such that all Japanese touring cars are good drivers and last for a long time but they never have the style, road feel, durability or power on tap driving experience that Mercedes delivers every time. Of course the high-end Japanese sports coupes are now really great but they're still crap/Jap cars. I'll stick with the other marques, the ones from Germany. Mercedes is tops in my book. Really, tie rods are not costly and they are important. Same goes for motor mounts, spark plugs, sub frame bushings, fuel pumps, etc. Cheap parts I'll be replacing on the 300CE soon. Decent stereo coming up too. Thanks for sharing about Japanese dependability.

Blue Interiors
 

My Volvo 240 has blue interior.... Looks great on the car and a number of them were made with blue interior..... Its a non issue on the 240.....

On the 140 blue is an issue..... If you plan on keeping the car any amount of time its likely you will need interior parts and even buying new its difficult to locate the uncommon colors..... There are not many 140's with blue interior and you won't be able to locate many used parts..... In some cases as the car ages dealers only stock the most popular colored interior parts and the uncommon ones have to be special ordered if you can get the part at all.....

Color is very important for resale to a number of buyers...... Nobody goes out of their way to find a white car with a blue interior... But you do get a number of buyers that look for black and tan or silver and gray color combinations...... With someone looking for a specific color combination you have additional negotiation leverage and can get a better deal since their pool of acceptable cars is smaller than someone who does not care about the color.....

If you enjoy driving cheaply made tin cans with plastic and cloth interiors more power to you. What exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting? Does getting revenge on Mercedes Benz make you feel better about your bad purchacing decision?

Not everyone has the same situation that you do and some people value different things in their cars. If you value reliability and cost the most your probably better off in a mass market commodity car.

I don't know about the newer Mercedes-Benz, but on the older ones the blue dashboards seemed to crack at a higher rate than the black. I have no clue why but the dash on my old 300SD (blue) cracked in several places. My brother's (same year, same model, but black) that sat next to it in the gararge didn't:confused: . That would be my only consideration.

The guy is smoking something good for $12,500. W140's resale is in the pits thats a $7k-$8k car. I have seen two very mint W140's sell in the past year for under $12k, on had 100k on it and was cherry, the other had 70k on it and was an 8 out of 10 car in all respects.

No offense but knowing you, a W140 would not be a good buy.

I don't care what the blue book says, W140 resale is in the pits. One of the above cars was a 1995 S420 with 100k miles on it. This car was on its second owner, black on black, stamped book from day one. No expense spared perfect car. The currant owner put $3k into the body to remove every little door dent and chip, in all respects this car was flawless. First owner was a 70 year old MBCA member.

He listed the car last fall for $12,500. It sold 10 months later for $10k. As he said no one was interested.

I have seen similer things happen to several W140's in my area, its a buyers market.

The plus side of a buyers market is one can almost purchase the cream of the W140 crop for $15k-$18k.:D

Don't worry though, XJ8's lose value faster!:eek: W220's on the other hand seem to be holding there value a bit better. You still can't get a nice W220 for less than $20k, at least I havn't seen one.

Current MB models ARE a mass market commodity car, that bank on the reputation earned by the old timer models. The production figures don't lie.

My Opinion
 

"I've seen 03-04 S500's for $22k. Even better deals can be had on Mercs at the Lexus dealer - that's where 90% of them end up. On the other hand I saw a few Lexus's at the Merc dealer yesterday. Seems they get bored with the Lexus and it goes full circle."

First off that is a dirt lie. I would pay you $5,000 if you can go to this "LEXUS" dealer and pick a 03-04 S500 up for me for 22K. Please just stop wasting time writing about this imaginary menusha. Now here is my opnion on the vehicle. First in my opinion the blue interior color is very nice. You have to be a certain person to enjoy this type of interior, because it requires that you have "taste". Second the price seems very high. For example in April I picked up a 98 S500 with 76K ( one owner ) for my grandparents for $16,400. It is silver on grey and it was in mint shape (currently has a cracked front airdam thanks to my 81 year old grandfathers driving). It is fully optioned including rear sun shade as well as having new tires. It was at an Audi dealer and I purchased a 2/24K mile extended warranty for $2000 ( they wanted $3,600). The car has had no issues and drives perfectly. If I were you I would search around more.

1982 Porsche 930 Turbo Grey/Black--( Not been driven in 2 years) -Inherited and for sale
2000 BMW 740iL Orient blue/tan --Recently Inherited and for sale
2002 SLK32 Black/Black (Purchased new)--weekend driver
2000 ML430 Blue/Grey (Purchased new)--still around to take the dogs to the vet.
1998 BMW M3/4 Alpine White/ Dove Grey ( Purchased new )---Current Daily driver
1996 SL600 Black/Grey (Purchased new) --Traded in on ML
1994 E500 Pearl Black/ Black (Purchased new )--Will never sell
1989 560SEL Black/Parchment ( Purchased New ) ---Totaled
1985 300SD Cabernet Red Metalic/ Saddle ( Purchased new)--Sold 2 Months ago (Big mistake)
1983 240D Nautical blue/ tan (Purchased New)--Donated 2 months ago, probably should have tried to sell it.

Your example is utterly useless for purposes of comparison if you don't tell us what you paid.

Its calle wholesale, thanks for educating us laymen on the pricing of late W220's.

People have different tastes, I think blue and red are about as ugly as it gets.

He never mentioned anything about "WHOLESALE" pricing, he said they were 22K at a LEXUS dealer. Thanks again for another pointless post.

Why don't you show us some 22K 04 and 05 w220 cars that are not wrecked. Im sure since they are so common you can find some on autotrader for us? :)

Im not sure where you have been for the past 10 years but ALL cars are getting cheaper in construction. While MB has ramped up their production over the years to sell to the American market even a C class is in a totally different than some of the mass market junk coming out of Japan and America. Many of the Japenese cars are are made out of really thin sheet metal and have really cheap plastic interiors. If you compare them to the Japanese cars of 10 years ago you see how they are cutting more and more corners.

Even the high end supercars are getting cheaper. Take a look in a new Rolls or Bentley and see something you have never seen before. PLASTIC!!!! Since VW and BMW got involved with them there are more and corners being cut on their cars. Compare that to a similar car from the 80's and 90's and find a full leather and wood interior with chrome plated buttons and controls.

The world is getting cheaper because the big corperations see the ability to make more money by selling their product to more people. As the 3rd world starts to drive cars will become even cheaper and perhaps even disposable. You should see some of the Malaysian and Korean cars that are sold in Europe that are not sold here. It should be amusing to see the Chinese cars when they start exporting them to the US. Might be fun to buy one and destroy it like Jeremy Clarkston of Top Gear. :)

Since you are new I'll let it go, but insulting mods is a really good way of having a short stay.:rolleyes:

Me insulting mods ? A short stay? GO BACK TO HIGHSCHOOL . I have had more Mercedes than you or your family will ever have. The end. Your thread makes no sence, again thanks for wasting TIMe!

1982 Porsche 930 Turbo Grey/Black--( Not been driven in 2 years) -Inherited and for sale
2000 BMW 740iL Orient blue/tan --Recently Inherited and for sale
2002 SLK32 Black/Black (Purchased new)--weekend driver
2000 ML430 Blue/Grey (Purchased new)--still around to take the dogs to the vet.
1998 BMW M3/4 Alpine White/ Dove Grey ( Purchased new )---Current Daily driver
1996 SL600 Black/Grey (Purchased new) --Traded in on ML
1994 E500 Pearl Black/ Black (Purchased new )--Will never sell
1989 560SEL Black/Parchment ( Purchased New ) ---Totaled
1985 300SD Cabernet Red Metalic/ Saddle ( Purchased new)--Sold 2 Months ago (Big mistake)
1983 240D Nautical blue/ tan (Purchased New)--Donated 2 months ago, probably should have tried to sell it.

Ahhh! But how many tricycles have you owned?

I have a feeling that was the wrong answer. Nice knowing ya. And you might want to see your therapist about that ego problem you have there.

Hmm that was an amzingly short run, 3 posts.:rolleyes:

He asked for it. :)

And of course his general "I am better than you attitude" and the complete list of cars he's ever bought in his signature was a really good sign of an ego problem.

He probably goes from site to site picking fights just to make himself feel better.

He had a similer attitude over in OD, what can I say I warned him.

I didn't make a bad purchasing decision. I bought a car that, based on its REPUTATION, ....SHOULD.... last longer before causing such problems. Go ahead and chide those "cheaply made tin cans", but facts are facts. I'll bet Jap cars require HALF the repairs as MB's. That's a lot. Said another way, MB's require TWICE the repairs as their Jap counterparts.

Face it, MB has made bad a/c systems .... FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS!! You'd have thought they'd figure out by now how to make a good one. That huge, glaring achille's heel aside, their cars aren't that bad, but for a leading manufacturer, could be better. There's no excuse that a simple $10 gasket should cost a consumer $500 to fix, but these are issues that MB causes their customers. On my '88 300CE, at just 10 years old there were 3 separate gaskets, transmission and upper and lower oil gaskets, that cost $500, and $600 for the upper and lower to fix. That's $1100 in case you don't have a calculator. The cost of the actual gasket is about $10 to MB, $20 to the consumer. The a/c's cost thousands to fix. What I'm saying is, there's no EXCUSE for this from what is considered a top-flight car company. I'm betting a Jap car of the same year and mileage, other than normal maintenence costs, would have ZERO in repairs at this point.

If the repairs for all this is no big deal as you say, then step up to the plate and pay my repair bills.

jeff
1991 300d, 93k

Lambo's have horrible AC, and the interiors up until VW came along were a joke. I'd buy one in a heart beat though.

Ferrari's have there issues as well, frankly I couldn't care less.

MB had very weak AC systems until recently. But I think thats more because in Germany the AC was fine and they figured it would be good for everyone else as well.

MB seems to have fixed this with the W140 and W210. In there latest models the AC is as good as anything. But that goes for pretty much all modern cars as well.

Nissan Maxima's had weak AC for quite a while as well. I remember a while back when my grandfather had the 95 you had to blast it to get any results on super hot days.

If you can't afford the repair bills on a Mercedes then the only logical choice is to buy something cheaper. I drive Mercedes cars because they are extremly comfortable and well made and last a long time. Your also basing your opinion on an 18 year old car. How many 18 year old Japanese cars are on the road anymore? Once they hit 200K they are scrap metal.

I have owned several Japanese comodity cars in the past and have not been pleased with them. Recently I sold a 2002 Honda Accord Coupe that I bought new with only 17K miles on it when I finally ditched it. This "icon of reliability" car was in the shop several times for issues with its brakes. Various squeeks and rattles and problems with its power sterring system. Honda has several open issues on this car with the NHTSA. One of them I found paticularly amusing was a problem with the sunroof which caused it to squeek. They discovered this in 1998 and did not do anything about it even in my end of production 2002 car. If I had not lost my patience the brakes alone could have qualified this car for a lemon law buyback.

Japanese cars are cheap to maintain but they are not comfortable and not well made. They are cheap commodity cars built for consumers who are don't know any better who want affordable transportation. They are by no way on the same level of engineering or quality as a Mercedes Benz. From my experience with my Accord I would say that ALL car makers are basing their reputations on the past and that ALL cars are being made cheaper to increase profits at the ultimate expense of the consumer.

Its one of the reasons I refuse to buy new anymore.

My brother had a 1996 Nissan Maxima SE that we never could get the A/C working right on. Several trips to the dealership later and the service advisor pretty much admitted that since he had a charcoal gray car with a black leather interior that the A/C was never going to really cool well. He finally traded the car on his 1983 300D because after several trips to dealerships and independant mechanics and every part being replaced in the emssions system the check engine light would not turn off.

"On my '88 300CE, at just 10 years old there were 3 separate gaskets, transmission and upper and lower oil gaskets, that cost $500, and $600 for the upper and lower to fix. That's $1100 in case you don't have a calculator. The cost of the actual gasket is about $10 to MB, $20 to the consumer."

~Thanks for the heads up on the gaskets. I'm driving the same year and model car right now. So far it's a tank. And since it has pillarless windows and a large sunroof I never run the AC. Seems a wasteful power drain when the breeze is just great with the windows down. All the power window switches work just fine. I guess they were used often by the two owners before me. And the AC is pretty good too. Maybe it was used a bit too. Seems fine for now. Not at all shabby for an 18 year old car with 110K on the clock.

So far I have spent $100 in repairs, had the throttle linkages rebuilt and got a new oil cap. And since the car only cost $2,000 I'm simply averaging it into the intial cost. In fact, if I had to put another $1,000 into repairs in the next year it's still getting added to the initial cost. The car is a Southern California model used locally as a highway commuter by the original owner who was an older gentleman. He ordered the car new and took great care of it for the first 12 years. The second owner kept the car in a garage in Beverly Hills and only put 20,000 miles on in the next 6 years. I figure I got a great car at a great price. And anything that needs attention I will dutifully look after. A good tune-up and O2 Sensor for example. It's pretty simple really. if the gaskets need replacing I'll order them and replace them myself which will save the better part of a $1000 bucks.

Thanks again and best of luck with those Toyotas.

Jason

Yes, Its called labor costs. I paid about the same to have my 1988 Volvo 240's transmission resealed. Unless you have a lot of time on your hands or have a shop with a full lift there's no getting around some labor costs.

Toyota's simply end up in the junkyard or need a transmission rebuild before their gaskets deteriorate. Toyota just like Mercedes Benz has to deal with the same physical properties of rubber.

I used to drive Japanese. I just got tired of throwing away my cars when they reached 200K. If your looking for a car that all you do is put gas in it and buy another one in 10 years Japanese is the way to go. If you look at all the costs involved though your paying more money in the long run and driving a cheaply made car. If you like having a new shiny piece of plastic in your driveway thats really the way to go.