Questions like these are very good ones. For me, it's not a cost issue at all, but an issue of blind faith. If someone tells me that I absolutely must use product A for something, my natural response is "Why?". I find the answer, "Because I said so," not to be satisfactory. There is either a very good explanation why, or there is no reason that you must use product A.

Hopefully someone can provide a very good explanation why one MUST use MB factory coolant versus other brands that are formulated for aluminum engines.

Brett

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1997 S600 sedan

Well, Brent, truth be told, thats why I asked the question in the first place. I didn't expect everybody to just clam up and say, "MB says so, so do it." But, basically, that was the consensus at the time. I have seen other post here that said, well MB coolant is good, but not really a whole lot better than other competitors. I expected at least some representation from that side in this debate. The most sensible debates I heard were that, G-05 was compatible with MB's, but that being said, the Valvoline-Zerex site shows the following diagram, which is posted here
http://www.valvoline.com/zerex/pdf/Zerex_CoolantChart.pdf
It says, among other things, that G-05 is approved by Daimler Chrysler, and Mercedes Benz, as well as Ford Motor Company. It is shown to be "Phosphate Free" and uses a HOAT chemistry, rather than the standard Green Ethylene Glycol base used for years. Thats fine. I got a few answers from Zerex-Valvoline's site. So, according to Zerex, G-05 is for everything that doesn't use Dex-Cool, unless it originally used Green Antifreeze. It sounds like good stuff. But, as good as it is, Ethylene Glycol, Green, Standard Antifreeze by Zerex has the following description:


Zerex Original Green is a patented low silicate formula that provides superior cooling system protection for passenger, light-duty & heavy duty* vehicles. Used for decades by many automakers worldwide, the formula is proven to provide unsurpassed corrosion protection in vehicles that specify traditional green coolant.

For convenience and protection try Zerex Original Green Ready To Use. Zerex Original Green Ready To Use combines the excellent temperature and corrosion protection of Zerex Original Green with de-mineralized water to help reduce the risk of cooling system deposits. The 50/50 mixture provides protection down to -34°F.

*Low-silicate chemistry for heavy-duty applications with use of SCA.
Excellent rust and corrosion protection
Helps prevent boil-overs and freeze-ups
Excellent aluminum protection

Anyway, all I was trying to do was create some intellgent discourse, on the scientific reasoning of why MB or G-05 is superior. Of course, I could have just accepted the reasoning of MB, that since they build the cars, they always know whats best. Then, I would also have to accept that I could only use MB DOT4 Brake Fluid. Or MB Windshield Washer Fluid. Or MB Power Steering Fluid. Or MB Fan Belts. Or a multiplicity of MB branded items that are manufactured for MB by outside suppliers and sold at a high markup because they are in a MB box. I understand why MB recommends MB parts. It helps MB's bottom line. I love my Mercedes-Benz. However, I do not wish to part with all of my hard earned money to pay 2 extra layers of overhead that I can cut out by buying, say, Elring gaskets from Rock Auto rather than the dealership, or Bosch Starters from Autozone rather than MB.
Thanks, God Bless,
Dave.

__________________
Currently Driving:
1986 Mercedes Benz 560SEL
1994 Lincoln Town Car
1994 Cadillac Deville
1985 Lincoln Town Car- Retired

The Official Car of a Realtor- Lincoln Town Car
The Official Car of the Successful Independent Insurance Agent- Mercedes Benz S Class

A couple of years ago before G-05 was approved for Mercedes use, there was a similar discussion about a Valvoline-Zerex antifreeze that touted by many as being the same or just as good as the Mercedes branded coolant. I called Havoline-Zerex and talked with a chemist there and asked him the question. He said that even though they made both, absolutely there is a difference in the Mercedes coolant and he would use nothing else. Why not call them yourself and see what answer you get? His answer was enough to convince me what to use.

Len

Well, I will call Zerex on Tuesday and see about all of this. In the meanwhile, I wanted to share with everyone some of my resource material. The following thread expresses the official opinion of Daimler-Chrysler AG, and Mercedes-Benz North America. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/antifreeze_article.pdf

It states that, among other things, that Mercedes Benz only wishes for MB Coolant or an "aftermarket equivelent". Pureflo coolant states on the back that, not only is it a Low Silicate Forumla, that it meets Mercedes Benz Specification DBL7200. I'll admit, I've never heard of it. But, maybe someone else has. Also, the exact wording of the Lubricants and Gasolines Pamphlet that comes with Mercedes' states the following,
"The use of aluminum components in M-B engines requires that the Anti-corrosion/ Antifreeze used be specifically formulated to protect the aluminum parts. Failure to use MB Anti-corrosion / Antifreeze may result in a significantly shortened service life. While there may be a number of products available which will provide the required protection, all such products have not been tested for Mercedes-Benz vehicles. The above product is suitable for our engines and can be mixed with the original Anti-corrosion/ Antifreeze filled in at the factory." Excerpted from Factory Approved Service Products, Copyright Mercedes-Benz of North America, Inc. Service and Parts Literature MBNA/MBC Rev. B (11-89). As best as I know, this has not been materially revised in the last 18 years, so it still stands. MB will not prohibit the use of aftermarket coolants. MB does not say that aftermarket coolants will hurt MB engines, only that they might. MB says that the reason that they don't know is that they haven't tested the aftermarket coolants. IMO, MB don't want to test the coolants. They can convince enough people to buy their product, by creating official doubt on all aftermarket coolants, including G-05. Also, cite the official instruction on the use of a 50/50 mix of MB Coolant and Distilled Water. Very Interesting.
Thanks, God Bless,
Dave.

__________________
Currently Driving:
1986 Mercedes Benz 560SEL
1994 Lincoln Town Car
1994 Cadillac Deville
1985 Lincoln Town Car- Retired

The Official Car of a Realtor- Lincoln Town Car
The Official Car of the Successful Independent Insurance Agent- Mercedes Benz S Class

I'm not sure if there are no other coolants on the approved list because Mercedes wants to push their own product or if it's because the coolant manufacturers don't want to pony up the cash to Mercedes to have them test their products. There is a whole lot more motor oil used than coolant, so why doesn't Mercedes sell and recommend their own label oil? There are many approved oils, more for the European market than in the US, but still plenty to choose from.

I'll be interested to hear what the latest word from Zerex is.

Len

Coolant order to use in your MB:
1) G-05 or MBZ coolant
2) Prestone Yellow
...
9) Green crap
10) Straight water
...
998) dog urine
999) Dexcool

__________________
Current:
2021 Charger Scat Pack Widebody "Sinabee"
2024 CR-V Hybrid

Previous:
1972 280SE 4.5
2018 Durango R/T, 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "Hefe", 1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo "Jeepy", 2006 Charger R/T "Hemi"
1999 Chrysler 300M - RIP @ 221k

Note: I forgot to clarify something in my first post. The Texaco antifreeze I speak of is NOT the Texaco Extended Life (Dex-Cool) that it is assumed to be. It is regular, old fashioned, Ethylene Glycol Based, Green, Texaco antifreeze. I would NEVER put Dex-Cool in anything that wasn't cursed with it from the factory .
Thanks, and God Bless,
Dave.

__________________
Currently Driving:
1986 Mercedes Benz 560SEL
1994 Lincoln Town Car
1994 Cadillac Deville
1985 Lincoln Town Car- Retired

The Official Car of a Realtor- Lincoln Town Car
The Official Car of the Successful Independent Insurance Agent- Mercedes Benz S Class

Agreed. Getting a DB (or DC now) seal of approval just means that they found the time to test it. But, the absolute minimum standard you need is to find coolant approved for aluminum parts. Whether it's as good as the MB fluid will require a long-term test, and I don't want to volunteer my engine/water pump/radiator as a guinea pig.
I can say that I trashed the water pump seal in my 2.3L from the '85 190E when I assumed "all coolants are the same" and used green crap in it. It began leaking within a few thousand miles, presumably because of the accelerated corrosion on aluminum parts. Let me quoth the Raven: "Nevermore!"

On page 5 of the article, it reads, "If you buy your anti-freeze from an aftermarket source, use a reputable brand that meets current Mercedes-Benz formulation, typically labeled a G-05 coolant..."

By george, you're right. I did overlook that official recommendation for G-05. Well, I think that helps clarify things. (And, Mr. Chase, I do know that MB spends a fortune getting things just right. The engineers there have more knowledge in their thumb than 20 people like me do. But, I have to try and keep things cost-effective, If you know what I mean. But because of your persistance, I am seriously considering using Actual MB coolant.)
Thanks, and God Bless,
Dave.

__________________
Currently Driving:
1986 Mercedes Benz 560SEL
1994 Lincoln Town Car
1994 Cadillac Deville
1985 Lincoln Town Car- Retired

The Official Car of a Realtor- Lincoln Town Car
The Official Car of the Successful Independent Insurance Agent- Mercedes Benz S Class

Hi,

This is a very interesting topic. It's been just a couple of months since I have my first MB and it's a 12 year old one. Unfortunately in my country most people think coolant is a waste of money because most mechanics think it is an antifreeze stuff and we don't have winter. I'm convinced it is actually one of the most important things if you want to keep your car in good shape for a long time. My MB has been running on tap water for about 10 years (previous owner by local mechanicals recomendations) and I guess abut 90% of used cars in my country are in that situation. I'm now using coolant but because of not using it from the start, I already had to replace water pump, oil cooler (and got the system contaminated w/oil), all hoses, expansion tank, thermostat, etc. The car is running ok now but that costed me a lot of $$$. Same thing happed to a VW Jetta previously owned.

The worst part is that you can't get a good coolant in my country. All you can find is crap cheap stuff ($3 a buck) and on the expensive side you can get Texaco Dex-cool or Fleetguard ES Compleat (Cummins dealer). MB coolant is not available here and the MB dealers use Texaco's Dex-cool. If I could get MB coolant, I would pay for it and use it in my car. My mother got a brand new BMW recently and my advice to her was to try to get a gallon of the original coolant and don't let any mechanic add something different.

I got affraid of using Dex-cool because all the bad things I have read in this forum and other sites. It looks like the worst crap on earth. So, my best choise was the ES Compleat and that's what I'm using now. BTW, that cost $40 a gallon in my country.

About Dex-cool I won't ever use it in my MB but I really don't think It is such a bad product. I just can't belive that Texaco and GM can be so wrong about using it wordwide. I have a Grand Vitara (originally Suzuky but made by GM in South America) and It has Dex-cool from the factory.

As a homemade experiment, I decided to fill a small glass with water and another one with 50/50 Dex-cool. I added some iron, aluminium. copper and steel to each glass. It's been a month now. As you could expect, the one with tap water is now full of corrosion and looks terrible but the one with Dex-cool looks like new and there is no sign of corrosion.

My advice: if you can get MB coolant, use it. Second choise is G-05 and third, the best one you can find in the local market.

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-----------------
Juan
1995 E320 Sedan
2008 Ford Escape
RC Helicopter

I think that if we are looking for very precise, data driven explanations as to why one thing is better than another, this is probably the wrong venue to do so. (It is, after all, the internet...) While there are some highly experienced technicians on the board, and a few more who bring their professional experience into the mix, most of us are shadetree mechanics who do this in our spare time.

In other words, you're probably not going to find highly technical, data-driven research as to why the chemical compound in OEM coolant is better than normal ethylene glycol.

The best most of us can expect from any of these questions is that the general consensus will reflect the experience of those of us who have been working with these cars, and then it's up to each individual owner to decide if that particular recommendation is worth the marginal cost over the least expensive option.

For what it's worth, I think of MB coolant like I think of synthetic oil. It's probably not 5x better, but it's still better than the regular stuff, and so I use it. Considering that it's gotten me to 285,xxx miles, that can't be all that bad.

Anthony

IMO, if you're changing coolant every 3 years, so what if it's $30 a gallon? If you use an equation of how much your time is worth based on your profession, how much money have you cost yourself researching the info? Probably at least a few gallons of MB coolant - lol..

I'm no moneybags, but my peace of mind is worth it considering I have to pony up the extra dough only once every 3 years, and I plan to keep the car permanently. It isn't like paying $15 a quart for some MB synthetic oil every 5k.

For that matter, I've gotten 80k out of my front OEM MB brake pads and 140k on the original front rotors. I could buy the discount pads and rotors and save maybe $80 total, but why? The OEMs have proven themselves. I know they perform, so I will buy them again

__________________
former: 83 300D, 97 C230, 93 400E

current: 08 C300 Luxury , 92 500SL

The difference on the brake pads and rotors, though, is that they usually are the same as the OEM components. Textar, Pagid, Brembo, Zimmermann, ATE etc. all supply MB as OEM's.
The coolants and newer ATF's (722.6 and later) are not easily available outside of MB.