I just bled the brakes on my '87 124 using a vacuum bleeder that I have used many times on my non-abs cars. The pedal now goes to the floor like it's full of air. I never let the reservoir get low. Could this have anything to do with the ABS?

I haven't started the car yet since it is waiting on a new cam to arrive.

Thanks,

Bob Kopicki
'87 300e
'85 XJ-6
'76 GMC C-15
'67 TR-4

Don't know what you mean by vacuum bleeder. I have done it multiple times on 300E's with pressure bleeder. I have Motive Products unit. The pressure is supposed to be 30psi. Works like a charm.

Steve

Well...
A vacuum bleeder is just the opposite of a pressure bleeder, and you use it on the opposite end that you would a pressure bleeder. It creates a vacuum at the bleeder valve of the wheel cylinder or caliper and sucks (OK my physics teacher would be mad - allows atmospheric pressure to push the fluid from the reservoir) the old fluid out of the system. I've always preferred this to pressure bleeders since brake fluid is hygroscopic and my "new" fluid could end up sitting in the pressure container for some time before I actually end up putting it into a car. The vacuum bleeder always allows me to pop open a new bottle of brake fluid when changing the fluid. Hope that helps.
Bob

Bob,

I have used my vacuum bleeder on my W201, R170 and Corvette with much success. Both of my MB's have ABS and my Vette doesn't, so I don't think that matters.

Dave

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1993 190E 2.3
2001 SLK230
1971 LS5 (454) Corvette Convertible

Dave,
Thanks - I just don't understand this. One thing that didn't seem right while bleeding was that the rear wheels bleed REAL slow. I don't know what that might have to do with this - maybe the hoses are swollen - but I still can't see how that would cause the soft pedal. Well, at least I know someone else has done this with ABS. As you can see from my fleet - I don't have a lot of experience with ABS cars!
Thanks again,
Bob

Bob,
Just a quick note...I'm assuming that you use the vacuum bleeder the same way that I do. I start with the right rear wheel, left rear, right front, then left front. At the caliper, I connect the vacuum hose to the bleeder valve, pull a good vacuum, then open the bleeder valve and see the old fluid go into the container, then close the bleeder valve before I lose vacuum.
And, I always make sure the reservoir doesn't get low on brake fluid. As far as a slow bleed, it sounds like restricted hoses or gummed up calipers.
The only time I ever had questions about ABS bleeding was when my right front pads on the W201 weren't seated properly and the pedal went to the floor. I re-installed the pads and everything worked okay.

Good Luck,

Dave

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1993 190E 2.3
2001 SLK230
1971 LS5 (454) Corvette Convertible

Dave,
EXACTLY what I do and did. Guess I'll be ordering some new hoses and trying again.
Thanks,
Bob

Check reservoir again.

It has two sections and you could have indeed drained one of them.

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Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

Kent,
How do you fill the second section? I kept a auto filler on the reservoir which keeps the reservoir topped off so I'm guessing that's not a player - but...maybe
Thanks, I'll have a look
Bob

There is a dam seperator between the 2 sections , so the front has to be full before fluid overflows to the other section. The auto filler may not let the firsts section to get as high as needed to plow over the dam.

Arthur:
To answer you question I use a vacuum extractorI purchased from Griots many years ago. It is so easy to use stick the tubes supplied down the oil stick port pump 10 times remove the oil cap and away you go.

It was mentioned that you should first crank a quarter turn of the oil filter or punch a nail through it so it will drain its oil into the pan. After you have retreived all the oil from the engine use the approrate oil cap tool with a half inch socket and rachet and extention and spin the old filter off and put the new one on with alittlle oil on the gasket face. Just snug up.
I haven't had to remove my air cleaner for this service so it is very easy and allows you time to check other items in the engine bay while its extracting oil from your engine.
I purchased a new oil pan plug and cooper gaskets just in case but have no plans to use them right now.

Bob Geco
1992 300E

Its been my experience that vacuum bleeding brakes is a pain - when you crack the bleeder screw open, air is pulled around the threads of the bleeder screw. This reduces the effectiveness of the bleeding operation, plus if you're trying to get air out of a line, you never know if you're successful.

Pressure bleeding is the best approach, far as I'm concerned.

Ditto...

To IKChris and Arthur,

It WAS the reservoir dam. You guys were right, the auto feeder was not high enough to breach the dam and I was drawing air through the rear brakes. The fronts were fine. I set the level higher on the auto feeder and re-bled the rears to very good results.

I will say that with the vacuum bleeder you can't tell if you are getting bubbles out since all of the fluid going through the line into the catch container has bubbles drawn into the line around the bleeder screw and you have to watch the quantity in the catch container to have an idea of how much fluid you've pulled through the system. However, (having 5 cars) the vacuum bleeder needs no adapters for the reservoir, does not leave the reservoir overfilled, does not pressurize the reservoir and its seals to the master cylinder (which may or may not have been designed for pressure) and I don't have to store a very hygroscopic fluid in a container under pressure.

The beauty of tools is that each has it benefits and draw backs and for me the vacuum bleeder has worked the best, I've just never run into a problem where I was drawing fluid faster than it could breach a divider in a reservoir.

Thanks to everyone for their input and help.

Bob Kopicki
'67 TR-4a
'76 GMC C-15
'85 XJ-6
'87 300e
'97 VW Cabrio

When I used my vacuum bleeder I would put thick silicone grease (Dow Corning 111) on the threads of the bleeder screw to prevent air bubbles. I now borrow a friend's pressure bleeder - much nicer to use.