Quaker State, Pennzoil, Shell Oil all the same?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

trueog · #1 03-13-2007, 08:08 PM

Hey guys, I recently was calling up the hotline for Pennzoil to ask if they sell 15W40 in Canada. Strangly it went straight to a Shell Oil number. I knew they owned Quaker State but Penzzoil aswell? So what this leaves me wondering and I wish you could answer my question;
is Q.S., pennzoil, and Shell oil all the same formula??? They are owned by the same parent company so I wonder if the formula is still the same, and if we can just choose between whatever is on sale. Shell is usually sold cheaply at Costco stores....So are they all the same?

Thanks.

jason490 · #2 03-13-2007, 09:18 PM

Well do what you will, but I would not use any of that garbage in my mercedes. Only Mobil 1 synthetic for me. Quaker State and Pennzoil are garbage.

POS · #3 03-13-2007, 09:53 PM

Yes and no. First, QS and Penn are not garbage - open your mind a bit. All oils must meet the standards set by the API, and those standards are high. All oils you're considering meet that standard, however, all those oils use additives to make their oil "better" than their competitors. Yes, they all reach the same standards so they are the same, but no their not the same because they all use different additives.

Pennzoil, QS, Shell, Chevron, etc. all make a good product. You could run it and you wouldn't notice a difference immediately or after 100k miles. The biggest leap in quality is from regular oil to synthetic. I use synthetic in everything I own except my diesels. For those, I use Chevron Delo 15-40.

Jackd · #4 03-13-2007, 10:14 PM

If you ever go to any lubricant blending plants, like Shell in Brockville, Ont, or Petro-Canada blending plant/refinery in Mississauga, Ont, you'll be very surprised to see how so many brands come out of the same pipe in the bottling plant..
All engine oil (without exception), whatever the label, the bottle and marketing claims, and meeting the same API specs are basically equal in quality.
A 10W40 API SM is a 10W40 API SW, whatever the make or brand it is.

brewtoo · #5 03-13-2007, 11:19 PM

Gasoline all comes out of the same pipe, too, but then gets additives added.

Call me crazy, but for all these years I've used Walmart "Tech" brand oil. About a year ago I had to take the oil pan off my '90 124 to replace the oil pump. Not because of the cheap oil, but because a professional mechanic, at some time in the past, dropped a little ball socket into the engine... it eventually got into the oil pump and Bam! locked it up instantly. I must have driven a mile or so with zero oil pressure until I heard all the racket and shut it down (we idiots need an idiot light and not just a gauge.)

Anyway, the engine amazingly survived with no damage and, in spite of my cheap oil of choice, the inside of the engine was as clean as could be, with no sludge or deposits of any kind. And when I pulled the connecting rod caps to check the bearings, there was still a lot of oil in the bearings.

So, I'll just keep using the Walmart store brand, thank you.

trueog · #6 03-14-2007, 01:46 AM

I've heard about the gasoline coming from one refinery for different regions and everyone adding their mix of additives...but in the case of Quaker State, Pennzoil, Shell Oil...are they all using the same additive? I doubt shell would want to employ 3 different research and development teams as that would shave millions from their billions in profits. Also Shell as a parent company owns Jiffy Lube as its a division of Pennzoil, so Shell has alot of interest in motor oil and end clientele.....

Hirnbeiss · #7 03-14-2007, 07:04 AM

You could tell the difference between QS and Pennzoil by the smell: Pennzoil was sulfury. I don't know if that's still the case.

wbrian63 · #8 03-14-2007, 08:40 AM

I worked as a contractor for Pennzoil here in Houston, just after the big dust-up between Pennzoil and Texaco. I went back to work for Pennzoil after Shell Lubricants had bought them out (again as a contractor).

Here's the deal - Shell formed a partnership with Texaco and Saudi Aramco in the late 90's. There were several companies formed - Equiva (Trading and Services), Equilon and Motiva. The idea behind this joint venture was to allow the distribution of the Shell/Texaco brands of gasoline by co-locating some of the distribution centers, and refining. As noted in a previous entry in this thread - today, gasoline is virtually a completely homogenous product here in the US. Regular Unleaded and Super Unleaded are refined at a variety of locations and piped to disribution centers all around the country. (Almost no Mid-Grade gas is refined, it's usually produced by blending Regular and Super). With the Equilon / Motiva distribution system, at each distribution center, tankers would fill up with the required base fuel, to which additives specific to the particular brand were added. If the tanker was headed to Shell gas stations, the Shell additive package was added. All of the companies that refine gasoline use the same network of pipelines to distribute their fuel around the country. Some of the lines are "fungible" - which means a refinery say in Deer Park TX which is to deliver XX barrels of Regular Unleaded to a distribution center at a location somewhere along the pipeline can inject those XX barrels into the line, while simultaneously withdrawing the same amount of gasoline at its destination. Other lines require the fuel to actually travel from its injection point to its withdrawal point before being removed. The actual process of tracking the fuel in these type of lines is quite complicated and rather impressive.

Anyway - - - - when Chevron bought Texaco, the SEC required parts of the partnership be dissolved. Shell wound up with the lubricants division of Texaco. Then Shell turns around and purchases Pennzoil, which was primarily a lubricants company, but also owns things like Jiffy-Lube, Quaker-State (via a merger in 2000) and a variety of other automotive-related companies, like Gumout, Rain-X, Fix-a-Flat, Slick 50, Blue Coral, Black Magic, and on and on and on.

So, now Pennzoil, who once hated Texaco (see http://www.agsm.edu.au/~bobm/teaching/MDM/pennzoil.pdf) , is now under the same corporate umbrella of Shell Lubricants. How the wheels of commerce do turn....

The Walmart-branded (Super-Tech?) oil is nothing more than repackaged Pennzoil. Great way to save a few bucks and get some good oil.

My last gig with Shell Lubricants was on the supply-chain side of the organization, so I got to see and hear a lot of goings on about supplying the customer with their product. As previous entries in this thread reveal, people are intensely loyal to their choice of oils. Companies like Shell are very aware of this condition and try to do everything they can not to cause ripples in this pond. When research is done on the matter, the most common reason for individual loyalty to a brand is that a respected person in the past had recommended brand-a or had panned brand-b oils.

POS correctly noted that all oils are required to pass stringent testing as laid down by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). This helps to ensure that when you pick up 10w-40 oil that, regardless of brand, it will perform up to the standards set for 10w-40 oil. Additives are another matter entirely - some oils have a higher level of detergents in them, others less-so. There are a lot of oils being marketed as "high-mileage" or "SUV-specific". From my experience working at the company and being in contact with the marketing folks that push this stuff, there's probably very little difference between a 10w-40 High Mileage oil and "plain old" 10w-40. The average driver will probably sell their current vehicle long before the difference between the two oils is noticed.

Just my $2.50.

jason490 · #9 03-14-2007, 09:10 AM

Good points,

I can tell you of a guy I knew that was a certified mechanic and a die hard quaker state user until one day. His beloved 65 corvette needed a new intake gasket. Upon removal of the intake, the oil valley was so full of sludge you could not see the lifters or hardly the pushrods. This was all from quaker state. I know some of you will say "how often did he change his oil, etc." This guy was a stickler and the corvette was mint. So that oil blows plain and simple. Have they changed it over the years? Maybe, but I would still stay away from it. If you cannot afford good oil like mobil 1, then you probably don't need a mercedes.

Hirnbeiss · #10 03-14-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason490

Good points,

I can tell you of a guy I knew that was a certified mechanic and a die hard quaker state user until one day. His beloved 65 corvette needed a new intake gasket. Upon removal of the intake, the oil valley was so full of sludge you could not see the lifters or hardly the pushrods. This was all from quaker state.

I have had exactly the opposite experience with Quaker State - on numerous engines. Never any sludge buildup, and clean, unworn internals.

trueog · #11 03-14-2007, 01:58 PM

Hey Buddy thanks for the long informative write up! you answered alot of questions I had in one shot. THanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrian63

I worked as a contractor for Pennzoil here in Houston, just after the big dust-up between Pennzoil and Texaco. I went back to work for Pennzoil after Shell Lubricants had bought them out (again as a contractor).

Here's the deal - Shell formed a partnership with Texaco and Saudi Aramco in the late 90's. There were several companies formed - Equiva (Trading and Services), Equilon and Motiva. The idea behind this joint venture was to allow the distribution of the Shell/Texaco brands of gasoline by co-locating some of the distribution centers, and refining. As noted in a previous entry in this thread - today, gasoline is virtually a completely homogenous product here in the US. Regular Unleaded and Super Unleaded are refined at a variety of locations and piped to disribution centers all around the country. (Almost no Mid-Grade gas is refined, it's usually produced by blending Regular and Super). With the Equilon / Motiva distribution system, at each distribution center, tankers would fill up with the required base fuel, to which additives specific to the particular brand were added. If the tanker was headed to Shell gas stations, the Shell additive package was added. All of the companies that refine gasoline use the same network of pipelines to distribute their fuel around the country. Some of the lines are "fungible" - which means a refinery say in Deer Park TX which is to deliver XX barrels of Regular Unleaded to a distribution center at a location somewhere along the pipeline can inject those XX barrels into the line, while simultaneously withdrawing the same amount of gasoline at its destination. Other lines require the fuel to actually travel from its injection point to its withdrawal point before being removed. The actual process of tracking the fuel in these type of lines is quite complicated and rather impressive.

Anyway - - - - when Chevron bought Texaco, the SEC required parts of the partnership be dissolved. Shell wound up with the lubricants division of Texaco. Then Shell turns around and purchases Pennzoil, which was primarily a lubricants company, but also owns things like Jiffy-Lube, Quaker-State (via a merger in 2000) and a variety of other automotive-related companies, like Gumout, Rain-X, Fix-a-Flat, Slick 50, Blue Coral, Black Magic, and on and on and on.

So, now Pennzoil, who once hated Texaco (see http://www.agsm.edu.au/~bobm/teaching/MDM/pennzoil.pdf) , is now under the same corporate umbrella of Shell Lubricants. How the wheels of commerce do turn....

The Walmart-branded (Super-Tech?) oil is nothing more than repackaged Pennzoil. Great way to save a few bucks and get some good oil.

My last gig with Shell Lubricants was on the supply-chain side of the organization, so I got to see and hear a lot of goings on about supplying the customer with their product. As previous entries in this thread reveal, people are intensely loyal to their choice of oils. Companies like Shell are very aware of this condition and try to do everything they can not to cause ripples in this pond. When research is done on the matter, the most common reason for individual loyalty to a brand is that a respected person in the past had recommended brand-a or had panned brand-b oils.

POS correctly noted that all oils are required to pass stringent testing as laid down by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). This helps to ensure that when you pick up 10w-40 oil that, regardless of brand, it will perform up to the standards set for 10w-40 oil. Additives are another matter entirely - some oils have a higher level of detergents in them, others less-so. There are a lot of oils being marketed as "high-mileage" or "SUV-specific". From my experience working at the company and being in contact with the marketing folks that push this stuff, there's probably very little difference between a 10w-40 High Mileage oil and "plain old" 10w-40. The average driver will probably sell their current vehicle long before the difference between the two oils is noticed.

Just my $2.50.

trueog · #12 03-14-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason490

Good points,

I can tell you of a guy I knew that was a certified mechanic and a die hard quaker state user until one day. His beloved 65 corvette needed a new intake gasket. Upon removal of the intake, the oil valley was so full of sludge you could not see the lifters or hardly the pushrods. This was all from quaker state. I know some of you will say "how often did he change his oil, etc." This guy was a stickler and the corvette was mint. So that oil blows plain and simple. Have they changed it over the years? Maybe, but I would still stay away from it. If you cannot afford good oil like mobil 1, then you probably don't need a mercedes.

Mercedes spends billions of dollars researching what to use or recomened on their mercedes for a long life. I'm sure the dealer recommened QS 15W40 is no mistake on dino cars as they would have advisory of which oils not to let a mercedes touch.

Mercedes takes years and spends billions to research this stuff, not your 2 cents...

300B · #13 03-14-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueog

Hey guys, I recently was calling up the hotline for Pennzoil to ask if they sell 15W40 in Canada. Strangly it went straight to a Shell Oil number. I knew they owned Quaker State but Penzzoil aswell? So what this leaves me wondering and I wish you could answer my question;
is Q.S., pennzoil, and Shell oil all the same formula??? They are owned by the same parent company so I wonder if the formula is still the same, and if we can just choose between whatever is on sale. Shell is usually sold cheaply at Costco stores....So are they all the same?

Thanks.

Pennzoil,QS and Shell are all Sopus products.While they are not of the same "formula" they are all excellent products.

300B · #14 03-14-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrian63

I worked as a contractor for Pennzoil here in Houston, just after the big dust-up between Pennzoil and Texaco. I went back to work for Pennzoil after Shell Lubricants had bought them out (again as a contractor).

Here's the deal - Shell formed a partnership with Texaco and Saudi Aramco in the late 90's. There were several companies formed - Equiva (Trading and Services), Equilon and Motiva. The idea behind this joint venture was to allow the distribution of the Shell/Texaco brands of gasoline by co-locating some of the distribution centers, and refining. As noted in a previous entry in this thread - today, gasoline is virtually a completely homogenous product here in the US. Regular Unleaded and Super Unleaded are refined at a variety of locations and piped to disribution centers all around the country. (Almost no Mid-Grade gas is refined, it's usually produced by blending Regular and Super). With the Equilon / Motiva distribution system, at each distribution center, tankers would fill up with the required base fuel, to which additives specific to the particular brand were added. If the tanker was headed to Shell gas stations, the Shell additive package was added. All of the companies that refine gasoline use the same network of pipelines to distribute their fuel around the country. Some of the lines are "fungible" - which means a refinery say in Deer Park TX which is to deliver XX barrels of Regular Unleaded to a distribution center at a location somewhere along the pipeline can inject those XX barrels into the line, while simultaneously withdrawing the same amount of gasoline at its destination. Other lines require the fuel to actually travel from its injection point to its withdrawal point before being removed. The actual process of tracking the fuel in these type of lines is quite complicated and rather impressive.

Anyway - - - - when Chevron bought Texaco, the SEC required parts of the partnership be dissolved. Shell wound up with the lubricants division of Texaco. Then Shell turns around and purchases Pennzoil, which was primarily a lubricants company, but also owns things like Jiffy-Lube, Quaker-State (via a merger in 2000) and a variety of other automotive-related companies, like Gumout, Rain-X, Fix-a-Flat, Slick 50, Blue Coral, Black Magic, and on and on and on.

So, now Pennzoil, who once hated Texaco (see http://www.agsm.edu.au/~bobm/teaching/MDM/pennzoil.pdf) , is now under the same corporate umbrella of Shell Lubricants. How the wheels of commerce do turn....

The Walmart-branded (Super-Tech?) oil is nothing more than repackaged Pennzoil. Great way to save a few bucks and get some good oil.

My last gig with Shell Lubricants was on the supply-chain side of the organization, so I got to see and hear a lot of goings on about supplying the customer with their product. As previous entries in this thread reveal, people are intensely loyal to their choice of oils. Companies like Shell are very aware of this condition and try to do everything they can not to cause ripples in this pond. When research is done on the matter, the most common reason for individual loyalty to a brand is that a respected person in the past had recommended brand-a or had panned brand-b oils.

POS correctly noted that all oils are required to pass stringent testing as laid down by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). This helps to ensure that when you pick up 10w-40 oil that, regardless of brand, it will perform up to the standards set for 10w-40 oil. Additives are another matter entirely - some oils have a higher level of detergents in them, others less-so. There are a lot of oils being marketed as "high-mileage" or "SUV-specific". From my experience working at the company and being in contact with the marketing folks that push this stuff, there's probably very little difference between a 10w-40 High Mileage oil and "plain old" 10w-40. The average driver will probably sell their current vehicle long before the difference between the two oils is noticed.

Just my $2.50.

Not true.Many of the WalMart oil products are made by Warren indicated by the WPP in the bottle.