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#16
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this is why I use vice grips (3 sets) to hold the chain on the sprocket when feeding in a new one..w/o it this very thing can occur. Turn the engine back ward and Gingerly turn the cam you think jumped back to where you Think it should be..if it hits again, back off just a touch and again turn the suspect cam again.
If you are lucky you'll get it right in a try or two... Next time use vise grips! Jonathan
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Blue Ridge Mercedes Jonathan Hodgman http://www.blueridgemb.com/ Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning. Follow Us on Facebook! Located in the Atlanta area Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines. Mercedes Repair Atlanta |
#17
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I used two vice grips on the passenger side only. I'll use your suggestion. Thanks.
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Regards Warren Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL ENTER > = (HP RPN) Not part of the in-crowd since 1952. |
#18
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Great pics!!
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1988 W126 420 SE beware of fundamentalists! |
#19
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If you had everything clamped down how did it skip time?
I only run VG's on the passenger side when I do a chain. Jonathan
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Blue Ridge Mercedes Jonathan Hodgman http://www.blueridgemb.com/ Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning. Follow Us on Facebook! Located in the Atlanta area Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines. Mercedes Repair Atlanta |
#20
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I fixed it today. I went out this morning and it was bright and sunny. I saw that the timing notched on the cams wee misaligned. I rotated the drivers side to match the passenger side and viola, I could turn the engine over and feed in the rest of the chain.
Crank aligned: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/wb300se/MB_420SEL/DSC_0010.jpg Passenger side aligned: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/wb300se/MB_420SEL/DSC_0011.jpg Drivers side aligned: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/wb300se/MB_420SEL/DSC_0012.jpg I rotated the engine over to make sure everything was OK. Now, for the distributor, wires etc. I may even tackle the air pump, not that it's bad but I'm sure it could use an overhaul. The A/C idler pully is bad too.
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Regards Warren Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL ENTER > = (HP RPN) Not part of the in-crowd since 1952. |
#21
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A few days later, I oiled the A/C idler pulley and it's now smooth. I've put most of the belts on. It has a new dist. cap, rotor and wires. I still have to put the fan back on and fill the PS reservoir and bleed it.
I removed the fuel pump relay and turned the engine over, and it was fine. I've also replaced a few coolant hoses as well.
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Regards Warren Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL ENTER > = (HP RPN) Not part of the in-crowd since 1952. |
#22
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A question for Steve: I have changed chain guides,banana link ,hydraulic tensioner,and timing chain (420sel) the timing is exactly as it was prior to this work ie: with harmonic balancer @ tdc left cam is "spot on" on the mark while the right cam is lagging by a couple of MM from its respective index mark. As the engine ran well to begin with do you believe it is a common occurence?will jumping one tooth on the cam gear over advance it? When I match the cams simoultaneously to their respective index the harmonic balancer is showing 5 degrees retarded,is it worth investigating further?
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#23
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I wouldn't worry too much about the marks. They always are a little retarded at the cams. If there is a significant difference between heads, it might be worth testing it completely. It's been years since I have done it, but the concept is to dial indicate the valve openning of cyl 1 and 6. In a hydraulic lifter car I think one is supposed to remove the hydraulic and replace it with an adjuster from the older mechanical lifter engines. Then one adjusts all the freeplay out and turns the motor till the valve is depressed 2mm. At that exact point the degree measurement is observed on the crank and compared to the appropriate value for that valve from the TDM (technical data manual).
If it is off 5deg or more then offset keys are available (or atleast they were) to correct. They were available in 2,3,4, and 5 deg. This is cam degree which is doubled at the crank, so it really is 4, 6, 8, and 10 degs. Since a single tooth is 18 degrees one can get about anything within 2 degs by using the offset to advance or retard. In other words I used to see a lot of chains stretched such that the right cam was 14 deg retarded (at the crank). By jumping the chain a tooth it became 4 degrees advanced, then using an offset key to retard it 4 deg it was perfect.
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Steve Brotherton Continental Imports Gainesville FL Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1 33 years MB technician |
#24
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Steve thank you for your informative response. I take it then at the cam my lag is 2.5 degrees ,which as you suggested , not worth worrying about. It's good to get some ones perspective on things.I will proceed and button the old girl up .
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#25
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you are walking to absolute unknown territorys for you.
there are many small detals to change chain and guides on that particular engine. first of all you must change all chain guides and then just think about offset woodrof key wich is availble in dealers . you will need help , second pair of hands to turn the crank evenly wille you will hold the chain , never forced , will be better if you removed all spark plugs out before do this. remember at the time you will install tensionaire and tighting it marks will moved so you will need to make some calculation. gear sprocket wich turns the distributor , have marks they must be horizontal, that is one of the most important points in this job. if you going to do this job alone it will be better if you removed all lifters to release pressure of the cams. also if you removing gear sprockets make sure you mark the washers , and try to remembre position of cams lobs at first and fifth cylinder. if you have any ??????please call me at 570 540 6565 or 570 254 4448 good luck Dan. |
#26
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Quote:
Can do brakes n shocks and tracking down vacuum leaks and electrical probs... Will leave the precision work to somone who knows what is what... A great ride if I ever get it out of the snowdrifts...doesn't wanna screw things up... "Know when to hold em, Know when to fold em, Know when to walk away, Know when to run" |
#27
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Hi all, while doing research in my quest to be a DIY'er to replace my timing chain and rails in my my newly acquired 91 420SEL w/ 170k miles, I ran across wbain5280's photo collage and it's excellent. The car looks and ran fine but I know its needs some engine work because it smokes on startup. (whitish/ blueish. The PO didn't have a clue as he just drove it. No maintanence records at all. I looked at the rails and they are red/brown. Two of the upper rails are broken so I stopped driving and have not started the car since seeing this.
I did a chain stretch test and consistently found that that crank read 2-4 marks after the 0 degrees mark. I cant imagine that someone replaced a chain and did not change the rails. Should I replace the chain. I have already order it. Am I getting into something that is detailed but not necessary now. Would you recommend that I work in this order? Replace the rails, replace the chain, replace the tensioner, put car back together and make sure it runs ok. Expecting it to continue to smoke at startup, go back in and replace the valve stem seals, cam oiler tubes and I found a leak in the right air distribution hose right at the injector. (This caused a surge and eratic idling). What about the cam sprockets. They do feel pointy. This is my second W126 but I'm still a newbie. Thanks in advance for all the help. BTW wbain5280, what did you use to clean the alternator bracket and other metal parts. |
#28
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I suggest you replace the guides and check the offset, AKA chain wear / stretch. If it's excessive, then replace the chain.
__________________
Regards Warren Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL ENTER > = (HP RPN) Not part of the in-crowd since 1952. |
#29
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Many, many thanks to all that have contributed to this forum. I have read hundreds of threads here and saved thousands of dollars. When I opened the valve covers, I found almost 1/2 the left upper rail just lying on the chain which after measuring it had 10 degrees of stretch. Boy did I dodge a bullet by not driving it. So with your help I installed timing chain guide rails on both sides (upper and lower), new tensioner and rolled in new timing chain. After putting every thing back together and re timing it, it purrs like a kitten. (not bad for a first timer)
Problem is, it still smokes. so back to the valve seals. What spring compressor do I need to buy and how do you remove the rocker arms. This is a 420sel so do I need to remove the cams, or how is this done. Can't seem to find the right thread for this engine. Thanks |
#30
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I would be interested to know at what mileage all of the cars in this thread hit before chain replacement, particularly the start of the thread!
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86 560SL With homebrew first gear start! 85 380SL Daily Driver Project http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm |
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