Your posts here should be made into a text book. Congrats on your extensive knowledge and the ability to express it.

If anybody thinks the W220 will be 'better' down the road, then look at the Daimler-Chrysler return for the last 3+ years. If you don't understand it, you should! It speaks volumes!

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
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'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

The graph speaks volumes - but what is the actual return on the W140 vs the 220?

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... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.

Actually the graph could reflect the cumulative hit to DCX's profit from the warranty repair costs on W140's (LOL) throughout the 90s and into 2001, which should now be bottoming out as they start coming off warranty....I'm buying some stock on Monday!

but the graph shows that MB has dropped 60%. And that means they are in trouble! So MB is forced to make cars cheaper because they must to stay alive.

So wait about 7 years or so, and see how well the W220 holds up. That graph is a harbinger; it's already telling you what to expect!

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Well, no argument they're building cars more economically, but disagree that it's necessarily because "they have to" but may be because the customers won't buy (enough, anyway) a car whose long term total cost of operation exceeds its economic usefulness, and pay MB the cost of such car plus a fair profit.

In other words, if maintained like (at costs comparable to) a Beech Bonanza airplane or a Grand Banks yacht, the W140 would last 25 years and drive like a dream the whole time, while providing perfect safety. Unfortunately the marketplace seems to be saying, we want to buy a superb car that runs awesomely for 7-10 years with little/no maintenance, and that's all we want to pay for. I don't think Juergen et al are selling out as much as facing reality.

A graph may be worth a hundred translations ...

__________________
... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.

hey YMSIN...just noticed you're in Malaysia. KL I presume? I spent a lot of time in Asia on business over the last few years - was just in HK a couple weeks ago in fact. Been to most of the major cities around the Rim but never to KL.

How do the MB's hold up in all that humidity? Any rust issues? Are parts hard to get? At least you don't have to worry about winter tires!

We live near KL - a mere half an hour away, but work IN KL.

Most of our MBs are tropicalised and can stand the local climate well. Only the few direct imports may be a little affected and pose a few problems here and there, but it is quite unheard of now as the global trade expands faster than you can blink an eye.

It rusts, like most cars do, but they generally fare better than the Japanese models with the exception of the Lexus (perhaps not many around to make a decent comparison).

Yes - quite riight that we don't worry about winter tyres. But we do have to spend a moment or so to decide on whether to get an all-weather tyre, or stick to the dry/wet ones.

Do give us a tinkle the next time you're in our area.

Good day.

__________________
... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.

I've taken a ride in a 94 S500 (60K miles) and an 01 S500 (3K miles). The 01 had AMG wheels and low profile tires. I liked the ride and quietness of the 94. That's how I believe an MB should behave. The 01 wasn't as smooth or isolated and it wasn't as quiet. Is this a result of the wheel package and/or redesign or a poor example of a W220?

Sixto
91 300SE
81 300SD

There's no doubt the MB has 'attacked' ALL of the price markets. But there's only one way to do that; quality MUST suffer! Unless you can get water from a stone, it's a plain fact of life; you don't get something for nothing.

My '94 S500 is seven years old, so we are in the 'critical' time of life. And I can report, it's working fine.

To build a car equivalent to the W140 (the current W220), the cost would be $150K in todays dollars.

You said: Unfortunately the marketplace seems to be saying, we want to buy a superb car that runs awesomely for 7-10 years with little/no maintenance, and that's all we want to pay for.

So you think that we determine what the market will charge? Not so! And we are going to pay in today's dollars for a car with the quality of a W140? And it's going to run "awesomely" for 7-10 years with little or no maintenance??

What you smoking?? I'd like some.

Sixto: When a low profile tire is put on, the ride will suffer. It has to do with the physics, unfortunately! The smaller (and harder) the tire, the worse the ride! There's no way around it. But the up-side is, the cornering and handling is improved. Can't get something for nothing!

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Jim,

I am not sure how long you have owned your car but most people that own 140's for a number of years can tell you some horror stories about costs of repair...and hopefully they were paid by warranty...my personal example has had over 20K in repairs in the last 3 years...and it was a one owner MB dealer serviced car. I thinkwith the 140's it will soon get to the point where the value of the car versus the cots to repair will make it unrealistic to do $2500.00 evap cores


Warren
1992 300SD 129K
Columbus Ohio

JimF,

I think you took what I was saying out of context...and Warren's post confirms what I'm thinking. You're right, if built to the same standards and materials quality as the W140, the updated car might well have to sell for over USD150,000 (for the S500). And reference Warren's post and mine above re total cost of ownership. If a car is expensive to maintain, the customer has to pay somehow (either up front so the mfr can bear the cost of a lot of warranty work, or pay for it themselves down the road). Either way, the marketplace has reacted by saying:
1) We prefer a lower total cost of ownership, even in an S Class.
2) The higher total cost of ownership of a W140 has to be reflected in its used purchase cost, which is why (IMHO) the late model 140's, even low mileage, sell at such big discounts to both their own new prices and the 220's.

I looked seriously at both, and the value proposition on the W220 was better. To me. For my money. That doesn't mean I disrespect my business partner who leased a Starmark 1999 S500 recently. But I'll tell you they gave him a *helluva* deal, including warranty for the full length of the deal.

You're 100% right, you can't get something for nothing.

The W220 MB Guard S500 is always available. Armored doors, bulletproof glass, self sealing tires and fuel tank and all. And, it's over US$157,000. The extra 800lb. of metal should more than make up for the mass reduction of the non-Guard W220 vs. the W140.

lol on the tank version of the 220 Midwest

I do agree with your point about the cost of operation having a bearing on the cost of the car...with the 140's I have noticed that after about the 5-6 year old mark they take a faster rate of depreciation...hence about the time that no more warranty can be had for them because of age/mileage

People know this and therefore the higher costs to maintain have to be factored into the purchase price.......hence lower prices.I have seen several early models, 92-94 ,in the upper teens to low 20's.I am very curious to see what happens when the 140's get down to being to being worth 8-10K.....My verdict is that unless the person can do their own work(which would be a very skilled person on this car) the market will see a lot of junk 140's as the costs to repair cannot be justified by the cars worth...most all of my vast repairs were covered by warranty....I love the car ...but I gotta tell you If I had had to pay for some of those repairs I would feel differently......I had one visit to the dealer where they replaced 3 items that I was told were common 140 breakdowns...evap core,blower resistor,and climate control push button unit...the bill was $5200.00!!...if you do the math you would need to have a pretty valuble car to justify that if it was coming out of your own pocket


Warren
1992 300SD 129K
Columbus Ohio

Why in the world should some a/c work cost $5200. THAT is the problem, dealers charging an arm and a leg for repairs. And Mercedes not coming out with any kind of service manuals or cd's on the cars. It's like you have to take it to a dealer on certain repairs or risk messing up more trying to do it yourself without some instructions. I love my Mercedes but American cars are way way ahead in the service support and books that are available from the manufactors.

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1995 S-350
370K + SOLD
1952 220B Cabriolet
39K kilometers + SOLD
1998 E300D
310K +
2012 E350 BlueTec
120K