'97 W140 -opinions? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

deaconblues · #1 08-24-2007, 09:35 AM

I'm about to pull the trigger on a '97 S500 with 49K miles. The car seems to drive flawlessly and is very clean inside and out. A/C blows cold, transmission shifts smoothly, suspension is quiet/smooth. The dealership service department has gone over the car and has found no problems except a leaking oil pan gasket (which was fixed) and repaired the sunroof and one rear window regulator. No warranty on a car of this age.

Been skimming the forum and seeing all kinds of things to fear from the W140. Talk me out of this before I

thanks

zcc · #2 08-24-2007, 09:44 AM

Go for it as long as the engine is in a great condition.

Falsapartenza85 · #3 08-24-2007, 09:57 AM

The S500 is probably the best W140 to buy, other than (imho) a 1999 S320- The only thing to watch for on a 1997 is the transmission. With 49,XXX miles, you should be OK, but get it serviced immediately- dump that trans oil and filter (don't forget the torque converter...). With the abundance of knowledge on this website, you should find all of your ownership questions easy to answer. Go ahead, its a beautiful machine that will last you forever with the right maintenance!

Mike

deaconblues · #4 08-24-2007, 07:32 PM

Thanks for the opinions! I think the car is pretty solid, but I am concerned about the original A/C evaporator. Anyone have reason to believe this was fixed by '97? Is there likely to be a wiring harness problem?

Pete Geither · #5 08-24-2007, 07:43 PM

Do it. That is probably one of the best 140's out there.

A. Rosich · #6 08-24-2007, 09:30 PM

The A/C evaporators were never fixed on W140s, they all have the same problem: a mix of copper and alluminun alloys which is what makes them leak. There is an aftermarket all copper evap that can be mounted to change the original factory unit. If the evap was or is changed at the dealer, it will be the same problematic unit.

49K sounds reasonable for a 1997, if it is in top shape, I will definitely go for it. Don't worry about the transmission, by then the 722.6 worked almost flarlessly and you just have to be sure to change the oil. Be sure the self-closing pump is working properly and all electrics work accordingly.

ASaltyDog · #7 08-24-2007, 10:31 PM

I've got 2 S500's, sold the 3rd. Like Peter said, it is the best of the 140s. Do NOT go into ownership of this car thinking that since you've got the best 140 you're going to be saved. This car will cost you a small fortune to keep going. Some can afford this. If not you'll have to do all the work on it yourself.

All Mercs of the era had evap problems. The 140 is the most intensive to repair. My first one took me a month. Lots of people brag they did their first one in 2 days, they're full of it. Having done 3, I could maybe do another in 3-4 days non-stop. If it hasn't been done to your dream 140, it'll have to be. Don't fool yourself. Some of the older units are now going on their 2cd evap.

I can do one will all parts for about $700 if I don't bust up the ignition and steering lockout. You can have the dealer do it, they'll get you for about $6k if you're lucky. The evap, heat exchanger, drier, expansion valve, hoses, seals will easily be $2k in just retail parts. You can certainly buy parts online, but you can't take them to the dealer. You can also find a knowledgeable indy, that'll save you a fortune.

Some other problem areas is the suspension, hydraulic is standard on the 500. I'm sure you've heard the strut/accumulator woes. Struts are maybe $600 each, accums aren't bad - maybe $100 ea.

Heaven help you if the roof acts up.

Figure the window regulators will break at some point. Being built like a tank, it just takes the usual effort to take the doors apart and re-drill them.

Instrumentation, electronics usually won't give you much trouble. The controllers (like fuel, ignition, ABS, theft etc) will. Sometimes they last a while, sometimes they don't. This is old solder the component type construction and there's a LOT of good info around to help you diagnose your own boards. If not, you can try to find rebuilts. Finally you can usually get one from the dealer. Ignition controller #1 on my car is $1400.

The stereo is just a marvel, Bose made it for Merc. The amp is in the trunk. Dealer will get you for a lot of $$ for it. I've seen them on Ebay out of stolen cars etc for less than $200.

If your motor has been neglected, about all you'll have to do it have it cleaned or the usual timing chains etc replaced. Dumb stuff like the oil recirc tubes between the valves pop and cause the motor to tick. Loudly. Not a real problem to fix, again just time. It's the finest motor ever made by MB. Internal failures are rare. If you do need a new one, a reman installed will be in the $20k range. I've done 2 complete rebuilds of the 119 (long blocks), my total cost about $2k and lots of time. Tranny in the $5k range.

Headlamp assemblies for Xenons are $2k ea from the dealer. They are rare from 3rd parties. Also expect the usual issues from the blower motor, the occasional leak, clogged drains, O2 stuff, fuel sensors, OVP relays, all glass is very expensive. The steering/hydraulic pump can give you trouble, as can the water pump and alternator. But no more than any other car really.

And finally almost all dealers get these cars from auction or repo. One 99 Grand I remember changed hands 5 times between lawyers and other dealers before it was finally wholesaled. 99% of the dealers have NO idea what a 140 is. Or what to look for. They usually have canned feature descriptions that you can easily spot. Resale on 140s is awful. I knowledgeable buyer would never pay more than $10k for a 100k mile S500, and that's if all the stuff was in order. Sometimes Ebay dealers nail someone for $15k+, then fight after the sale over condition of the car. Buyer rarely wins. Remember Ebay protects their dealers at all cost - it's their lifeline.

A lot of 140's are being sold via the 30% interest and 50% down method, and the cars are often ghetto'd out. This is usually 20" wheels which will ruin a 140s suspension in a matter of months. To me this is a sad time as a lot of 140s are being "stolen", cut up for parts, or just hauled to the junkyard. There are VERY few S600s left, and the ones that are still running are owned by very knowledgeable and dedicated people. The motor was that car's Achilles heel, and there weren't many that made it past 100k miles. It cost about $30k to replace that motor, and is so despised by MB shop techs they usually argue over who's gonna work on it. The 137 model fixed most of that but was a lesser 3 valve design with some proprietary rights issues.

The length of this little note was intentional, I've seen more than a few inquiries of late RE S500s. Each time I want to say this [herein] to the excited buyer who'd found another Ebay car. In summary, a well tuned S500 in a 140 model is by far the best ride in the world. Not just of MB, but of any car. You'll never drive such a worldly machine. Just be ready for what it can throw back at you. Show the seller you know what to look for. They will ALWAYS tell you the same thing – “If you don’t buy it I know someone who will”. Stand your ground

deaconblues · #8 08-25-2007, 04:07 PM

If a 4-6K$ repair is inevitable to replace the evaporator.... I'm starting to think this will be a mistake......

lesrrt · #9 08-25-2007, 04:11 PM

Right on the mark, period!

pj67coll · #10 08-25-2007, 05:28 PM

I recently took this one for a test drive...

http://www.plazamotorsaz.com/64_1997_Merz_s500.htm

Looks great doesn't it? The rear suspension needs work. Don't know if it needs new acumulators, struts, both or what but it was impossible to tell if the car had a decent ride or not because of that. I hit my head over a couple of bumps because of that. The right rear window was stuck. Just squealed horribly when trying to move it. The AC didn't seem all that great. Steering was rather heavy and groaned quite loudly. I couldn't find any rust on it but it had started out life as a Pennsylvania car so there might be hidden issues that I had not been able to detect. The rear view mirror was lying in the back seat.

After hearing the kind of advice offered here I think it's a car I'll not be taking the plunge on. To be honest I don't know I'll ever be able to afford a W140.

- Peter.

deaconblues · #11 08-25-2007, 08:27 PM

Accumulators, struts, I'm willing to mess with, but this one seems okay. I don't think the steering leaks in this car. But the A/C evaporator issue has me concerned.

I don't suppose anyone has ever seen a post '96 W140 that HASN'T needed an evaporator replacement?

ASaltyDog · #12 08-26-2007, 01:06 AM

No, they all need to be replaced sooner or later. But Deacon, maybe it's already done?

I admire your grit - and enthusiasm for 140s. Sounds like you're determined to get one, so look for the obvious stuff. I'd really think finding issues on a potential purchase would not be for argument, or a price reduction. Rather, for a go-no-go decision. Just a few of the obvious things would quickly turn the whole thing sour and I'd be running for the hills.

Busted rear view? Maybe. Out of rounds? Maybe. Rotted fluids? maybe. Burned out steering motors? For sure. Seat motors? Maybe. Broken glass? For sure. Either the car is worth a certain figure or it's not. If it's not, it'll drop off the scale exponentially and you'll buy a sled.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but that car at plazamotors has a collapsed rear-end. Almost every sentence of the description is a red flag.

Keep us posted - you'll find one. If you don't I'll find one for you

JimF · #13 08-26-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASaltyDog

All Mercs of the era had evap problems. The 140 is the most intensive to repair. My first one took me a month. Lots of people brag they did their first one in 2 days, they're full of it. Having done 3, I could maybe do another in 3-4 days non-stop. If it hasn't been done to your dream 140, it'll have to be. Don't fool yourself. Some of the older units are now going on their 2nd evap.

Well, an W140 evap can be done in one day . . b/c I did it! Check out this link:
Next . . my turn to replace the evaporator especially post #28.

It's a tough job but it can be done is one day. It's a ton of screws, clips, etc but nothing is that difficult. Certainly it needs a 'pro' that has done it before . . . and just not 'once' and a lot of effort in order to complete in one day.

However, you're correct that it's not cheap but not that bad if you can get parts at 'wholesale' or close to it.

For my C140, it has been the cheapest MB repairs that I ever owned. However, the A/C expense certainly makes it move up the 'cost-ladder'!

A. Rosich · #14 08-26-2007, 03:10 PM

As ASaltyDog said:

"...a well tuned S500 in a 140 model is by far the best ride in the world. Not just of MB, but of any car. You'll never drive such a worldly machine."

I completely agree. After driven and tested many many cars from all categories and price ranges, I always go back to the W140 as being really one if, if not THE best production car ever created.

Yes, some of the issues like the A/C evap and others mentioned on this thread can be sometimes expensive to fix. But if you carefully plan your budget and select a good indie (and avoid the dealer) you can save thousands.

pcmaher · #15 08-27-2007, 08:31 AM

No one answered your wire insulation question yet...the insulation problem was fixed in '96 and on years.