Hi everybody,

Please help! I am new to this forum. I have a 1994 S500. I really want to update my halogen headlights to Xenon. It all started when I found my headlight lens has a big stone/rock chip, from which leads to the thought of replacing the headlamps to ones with projectors buying online:

http://www.xtralights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1559

However the euro style headlamps seem to have Hi/Lo beams separated with the high beam at where the fog lights used to be and fog light has it own compartment tuck right under the Lo-beam...and looks like there is another light(unknown purpose) just under the new position of the Hi-beam as well. Currently the headlight is H4 halogen with both Hi/Lo in one bulb. Can the Hi/Lo be split after I convert to Xenon?(with Hi-beam split out as a halogen bulb (but what type?) and still be able to operated from inside the car as before?? Or, the only way is to go with those Bi-Xenon HID with Hi/Lo both in one bulb:

http://www.xtralights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1341

but any disadvantage with Bi-Xenon bulbs? Sounds too good to be true. But with Bi-Xenon, there will be 2 unused lights in each side. Is it normal? Please help.

Rod

ps. Do I have to disconnect and lose some self-leveling feature with these aftermarket headlights??

True bi-xenon doesn't use two bulbs -- it uses a moving lens/reflector system with a single bulb and a good projector. I have bi-xenon projectors in my Cayenne, and they are the most incredible headlights I've ever had in any car, bar none.

Sorry, I can't help you with the other particulars of your car. I can tell you that you really want proper, well-designed projectors for this kind of project, though. Just slapping in xenon bulbs is less than idea, because the reflectors in ordinary lamps are set up to focus on the halogen bulb. The "flamefront," if you will, is different on the two types of bulbs, and can result in a mis-focus of the light if done poorly.

Also, I believe federal rules requires HID lamps to be self-leveling. It's going to be hard for them to enforce anything on you if you install fixed lamps, but it's still not the right thing to do. Those things are wicked bright to oncoming traffic if not adjusted properly. (It's also why most after-market kits come from Asia.) Try to get it right if you can. My factory bi-xenons self level.

Good luck with the project!

Cheers, John

__________________
'98 E300TD (W210) | Sold 6/09 with 205k and counting
'04 VW Touareg V10TDI

Thanks John,

After reading what you suggested, I will definitely have to consult with my MB specialist before I go ahead with anything. However, my gut feeling is they will tell me they don't know much about it either since they don't do aftermarket parts every day. Though I will go ask them Monday, I still hope more experts from this forum like yourself could shed some light. Thanks again, and you have good taste in cars.

Rod

And NEVER buy the cheap Chinese xenon.

__________________
Master Computer Engineer, A+, Network+, MCP/MCSA/MCSE 4/2k/2k3 - Messaging, MCTS, MCITP, MCT, Brainbench, ICDL and starting Ph.D

380SE 1984 <------- Totaled by flipping accident
300SE 1988 <------- Sold
Volvo S70 2000 <---- 4 family
Opel Omega 2002 <-- 4 family
560SEC 1989 <------ Sold
560SEL 1990 <------ Sold
560SEL 1991 <------ 4 my mother
560SEL 1989 <------ Sold
600SEL 1992 <------ Current

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkhazenzcc

Ok, I have a 93 500SEL which I converted to eom xenon lighting after acquiring a set of lamps from a smashed 97 S500. First you forgo the self leveling feature unless you acquire both axial sensors and the control box.

Second I wonder about the quality of the light output from those china lamps. Actually installing a set of OEM lamps from a 95 will give you better quality, near xenon in fact if you run special H9 burners on H7 bases. You don't mention if you have Day time running lamps, this makes a difference. Lastly Mercedes altered the wiring for headlamps many times in the 92-96 period so your car might be different.

For the pre 95 lamps they would be H4 (high/low)/ H3(fog)(I believe, maybe h1) for the 95 they would be H7 (low) H1 (high) H1 (fog) with a city bulb in Europe to provide a few watts of lighting in a well lite city at nightime. This city lamp socket likely is the extra bulb position you are talking about.

For the Xexon the oem reflector is a different part number, the glass lens is different, and it provides D2R, h1(high) h1(fog). I've a spare busted xenon assembly, plus two 95 assemblies in the garage, so I've checked this first hand.

Now the issue with the pre 95 is the xenon run on the low beam power, but when you switch to high beams, you switch power from low to high and lose power to the xenons, this is not good. Post 95 you would find the H7 is on all the time which is more workable. Even for those projector lamps using non-xenon you have the same issue however the lighting you get from running high beams only (versus high and low) might be acceptable and switching the (non-xenon) low beams on/off isn't an issue

You could rig power and relays and control from the parking lamps to feed the xenons but then I'm not sure if disconnecting both low beams wouldn't turn the lamp out indicator on, might not, you could test that first, by disconnecting both low beams and see what happens. Mind finding 30 amps of power in the engine bay is a chore.

So what I found was the feed from the lamp switch goes to a connector under the steering wheel which feeds the wiper control stalk. The stalk logic provides power either to the H4 low (yellow), or to the H4 high (white) depending on position of the stalk, this feeds to the fuse box where you have 7 amp fuses for each circuit. If you pull it back to flash you feed power to both the high and the low side where the high side comes from I believe the feed from the rear window heating element.

For 95 onwards I think the lamp switch feeds the fuse box directly for the low beam, and feeds the control stalk connector which only provides power to high beam when needed.

Oddly in my case the wire was marked as being 16 gauge from the lamp switch to the connector, but was actual 12 gauge, so we soldered in a junction block to provide power to the yellow feed going to the fuse box, and then still fed the stalk connector which provides high beam power when needed. Plus then swapped the 7 amp fuses out for 15 amp ones.

I'll note if you have (daytime running lamps) DRL you need a relay to prevent feedback from the yellow DRL to keep it from providing power to the high beams, otherwise the DRL will attempt to back feed power to both the high and low beams based on stalk position, which is not a normal condition and will overload the DRL relay.

http://www.hidxenonlights.com/catalog/item/63444/3932.htm or,
http://www.hidxenonlights.com/catalog/item/63444/345416.htm
However the bulbs...


68882: Thank you, thank you! Thank you for sharing, that's a wealth of information. I always knew it's more than just plug and play, just didn't know it's that much more! Yes, I live in Canada. So I will have to deal with the DRL issue then. At first I thought the retracting Bi-Xenon bulbs:
http://www.hidxenonlights.com/catalog/item/63444/345416.htm or,
http://www.xtralights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1341

could solve the Hi/LO problem...but it seems to be a lot more now. So, do you think I can use Xenon with projector and it would work? And if I use Hi/Lo with the projector, I am asking for trouble? And perhaps I should ask to have the wiring change to the way 95 and later, run H7, H1 and H1. Would that be much simpler? I just keep thinking...they had gone through so much to come up with a Bi-Xenon, why can't they make them work with projector lamps??? That just sounds silly to me.
Based on your advice, I will proceed accordingly.
You know what else bothers me? From reading the detailing forum, found out other people's MB headlamp lens are made out of plastic these days??? My crack one is glass. How is it possible people spend so much on their MB and get plastic headlamp lens? I can understand if they are aftermarket, but...original parts too?? Thanks again 68882,

Rod

Ok well first you need to realize the bulb mountings for the projector using an H7 bulb is quite different from a D2S bulb. Buying a projector for H7 doesn't mean you can mount a D2S bulb in it. As mentioned Bosche and Hella projectors uses a movable light shield that not only sets the lamp pattern cutoff but does the high/low beam adjustment based on power (high beam) to a motor that adjusts the shield position. Really the problem you have is that you must provide continuous power for the low beam circuit irregardless of the high/low beam setting. I mentioned the connector for the control stalk as the place to make wiring changes versus say the headlamp switch because you will find it's quite impossible to add another wire at the switch because of clearance and how the wiring is under the switch's cover plate.

You can of course do something with relays in the engine bay if you can find a source for 15 amps (2x), then wire up your existing low beam and parking lamp feed as the relay control source.

Mercedes switched to a plastic Lexon? that is both UV resistant (doesn't seem to cloud or turn yellow) and is shatterproof/unbreakable. This does not mean any china made plastic lens would have those characteristics. Our local dealer demonstrated this once to us by smacking a w210 len with a very large hammer, couldn't break/dent/scratch/mar. This means you can't break a lens in normal road use (say a flying rock).

I'll note one of the lamp assemblies I got off the 97 later had the ballast fail because it was evident the original owner had broken a lens (glass everywhere in the assembly, then drove it for awhile which resulted in water damage to the ballast since it's mounted under the assembly and that is where the water drains.

Thank you again for your information yesterday. If I understand you correctly, the proper combination of Hi/Lo HID and projector is by having a motor for each projector, and without projector I can get away with retractable Bi-Xenon bulbs because of no concern of projector focusing? I had been hunting for Hella or Borsch projector assemblies or entire headlamps for W140 that with updated euro styling and came up with nothing. The only ones could fit D2S look just like mine now run about $1,300 each side can only make it brighter but not updating the look. I found some projectors alone with motors for D2S by they are used out of a Lexus:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/INFINITI-FX35-BI-XENON-PROJECTOR-SET-HEADLIGHT-HID-D2S_W0QQitemZ230171331060QQihZ013QQcategoryZ36476QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
but that's not going to help since there is no proper headlight housing that I can fit them in. I don't want to spend over $3000 plus just on parts and cannot improve the appearance and still looking just like what I have now. I must keep looking for proper parts. Also found out the $600 aftermarket headlamps with projector(which is not the proper projectors) that I mentioned cannot with stand the heat from HID because of the cheap front plastic lens. So it has the right look but not quality. Meaning if I want the updated Euro look for W140, I have no option of using Xenon??? I hope there is something out there?? Or modern clear and good quality replacement front lens for cheap housing? I will get this resolve within this couple of days.

Now I feel much better about the new Mercedes headlamp lens, thanks for clearing it up. Thanks again for your valuable information.

Well if you look on ebay for "projector d2s bi-xenon" you'll find lots of sellers of OEM parts (bosch, hella) I guess it would be possible to use one of the non-xenon new look Chinese assemblies and mount the bi-xenon ones, assuming you can find a projector lamp assembly the same or similar to the ones in the assembly so you can use the same mount points.

I'm not sure about the heat issue, xenon lamps only require 35W of energy to run, so technically they run cooler than the normal 55W incandescence bulb that would be in the new assembly.

I'll note lurking in here depending on your jurisdiction is the whole insurance/liability issue if you cobble together a custom headlamp solution and have an accident at night and you could be blamed for running a non-approved, non-tested, etc headlamp system that was at fault for the accident. The fact you buy an finished assembly from someone means *in theory* it was tested and approved for the vehicle (whatever that means).

Thanks for reminding me with the liability issue, it sure is a bit concerning. And you are right about the HID temperature. I did some read up on the issue...it just shows not all salesmen know their own products. After all, I believe the most feasible solution is just like what you mentioned a few says ago of achieving a consistent power supply to the Lo beams not withstanding the operations of the Hi beams. Regarding the Xenon, they sent an E-Mail to me to assure the Hella ballasts are water resistant and made in Germany. Regarding the Lo beams being DRL, I will make a note about the relays (not that I understand it well now, but I hope I will). Other thing I can think of is to cover the cheap lens with clear UV/stone 3M guard. Thanks again,

Rod

>I will make a note about the relays (not that I understand it well now, but I hope I will).

Ok, well at the control stalk connector you feed in (for a 1993) yellow which is from the headlamp switch. The control stalk outputs yellow (low beam) or white (high) which head towards the fuse box. Now with DRL the output yellow line is actually hot because there is a line from the DRL relay to the fuse box for low beam, so the output yellow actually has 12V.

The DRL relay is controlled by a line from the dash lamps, so if you turn the headlamps on, then the DRL no longer feeds the yellow, however stalk then directs power from the head lamp switch either to the yellow output or white output.

So the issue is if you bridge the input yellow to the output yellow at the stalk connecter this then can provide power to both the yellow and white output which can overload the DRL relay. Thus the bridge must be a relay that only provides power across the bridge (input yellow to output yellow) when the headlamp switch is turned on.

Got it, Thank you! You help me so much, when it's done I've got to buy you coffee. Then I thought , I live in Canada, next time when I go to the states got to look you up. ...Then, something shock me. Considering this forum opens to everybody that has access to the net, with what I saw underneath your name we are practically neighbor! I am speechless. I live in Victoria! Thanks again,

Rod