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#1
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Insurance Arguments over E500 Value
Somebody crashed into the front of my 94 E500 this morning while we were sitting at a red light. Nobody got hurt, but the crashing car was a Toyota Sequoia urban assault vehicle and its bumper was higher than mine and ended up a foot or two into the hood. I can't open the hood at the moment and can't totally assess the damage, but I know the grill, lights, bumper, hood, at least one fender, radiator, fans, and probably the steering pump are trashed. My fear is the insurance people will offer me the KBB $6-7k range and total the car out and I won't be able to fix it for that.
I'm wondering if anybody out here has been in a similar situation with an older MB and had any luck bucking the KBB and Edmunds, et al valuation scales with a rarity/collectibility argument and how they went about demonstrating a higher value. One professional/collector of 500Es has offered to talk to the adjusters, but I'm hopeful that I can find someone who has actually fought this fight and find out how it went. Thanks, Mark
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I never go far without a little Big Star 1994 E500 199/Gray 82k 84 300D (Salty) Orient Red/Palomino 141k 88 300CE (Ersatzhammer) 904/Java 163k -- Turbo Technics twin turbo kit, AMG Gen I body kit, Sportline steering box and steering wheel, Sportline/Eibach /Bilstein Sport/500E suspension, Quaife LSD in 210 mm diff case, Silver Arrow brakes. 88 300CE Brabus 3.6 199 on Black 44k |
#2
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Been there, done that and got the T-shirt.
I got rear ended by an Explorer whos bumper was higher than mine. Trashed the whole rear end (both quarters, trunk w/spolier lights … etc). I had to go through 3 or 4 adjusters before I got to one who would listen. First thing, do your research. Go through Ebay, want ads… etc to see what they are going for. Similar mileage, maint .. etc. State Farm wanted to offer me $5k and I told them to stuff it. Show them your main records and everything else. I had to eat a little of the repair cost (about $700 IIRC). I went out and found a clean salvage trunk/spoiler and my body shop took care of the rest. State Farm forked out about $4,500 to $5,000 (not sure as it was several years ago) and I still have my car. I got the right person and had the evidence to back my claim. I got lucky. You have nothing to loose if you fight them on it. As hard as it was, don’t antagonize them. The urge to b!tch slap the adjuster will be over whelming. Just breath deep and think of the car. Kill them with kindness and if that does not work …. Just leave the kindness part home. Good luck. edit: If you end up eating part of the loss, make sure that the insurance company does not give you a salvage title and does not list the car as salvage anywhere. That was a big part of my fight with State Farm. They wanted to sell me the car back as salvage and I told them no, this was just a value issue and that if they were going to give me $x.xx to fix the car I would get it fixed (they did not know about me getttiing the trunk my self) so State Farm said fine and gave me a clear title.
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Sent from an agnostic abacus 2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD** - With out god, life is everything. - God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson - You can pray for me, I'll think for you. - When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. |
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Your car has a NADA retail of $17,250. It would take one heck of a hard hit to total it out. The adjuster will most likely want to repair your car with your described damage. Unless the damage is over about $12-13K, then the car will most likely be repaired. I'm just guessing your damage estimate could be about $5-6K.
Don't forget--you can always get your insurance company involved--then later--the two insurance companies will subrogate the claim and you may very well get your deductible back. The point being, your insurance company is MORE likely to treat you better as you are their customer. Good Luck, and I am sorry for your loss. At this point, finding a GOOD shop is the most important thing next to dealing with the adjuster(s). -GH Quote:
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#4
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Where did you find the NADA value? Both Kelly Blue Book and True Market Value came out significantly lower than that.
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I never go far without a little Big Star 1994 E500 199/Gray 82k 84 300D (Salty) Orient Red/Palomino 141k 88 300CE (Ersatzhammer) 904/Java 163k -- Turbo Technics twin turbo kit, AMG Gen I body kit, Sportline steering box and steering wheel, Sportline/Eibach /Bilstein Sport/500E suspension, Quaife LSD in 210 mm diff case, Silver Arrow brakes. 88 300CE Brabus 3.6 199 on Black 44k |
#5
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Try to bribe the adjuster. Works every time!
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#6
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If your KBB came out at $6k-$7k as suggested in your first post you're doing something wrong - high teens is more like it.
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#7
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."
Having comparable sales figures, obtained from Autotrader, craigslist, ebay, KBB, Edmunds, ads in the newspapers and so on never hurt, nor do extensive service records is a pretty good idea, too. It helps prove the fair market value of the car is what you claim it is.
However, when it is a special interest car, or a rare one, -- and I know EXACTLY what the E500 is!!!---by the way,--- you should SERIOUSLY consider hiring a professional automobile appraiser. Yes, it may actually cost you a few hundreds of dollars to have that done, but the results are usually inarguable, it is like an investment to do that sometimes, that will pay you back far higher than what the appraiser's fee cost. A guy who owned a body shop and dealt with insurance adjusters (called adjusters because they "adjust" downwards the figures submitted by the policyholders and body shops, told me this a long time ago and I never forgot: "It is much easier to start our by being really hard nosed and tough, and then easing up a little bit later, than to start out by being a nice guy and getting tougher aas you go along" Wise advise, and I think it applies to MOST dealings in this life, and not just insurance adjusters. As to the insurance adjusters, how do I know they are like that? Because I used to be one of "they."
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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ... 1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold) 2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp 1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k 2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold) |
#8
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Unless your 500E is beat to death its worth $10k. Book value has got to be mid teens on it as said above.
Tell them the idiot they insured decided to hit a very expensive car.
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1999 SL500 1969 280SE 2023 Ram 1500 2007 Tiara 3200 |
#9
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It's all academic until the insurance company states its' case. One of our customers had his 1992 CE totaled. The insurance company started with a value of $7000,,,, he finally settled for $12,000. And his car was NOT very nice. I wouldn't have given him $4000 for it.
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95 SL500 Smoke Silver, Parchment 64K 07 E350 4matic Station Wagon White 34K 02 E320 4Matic Silver/grey 80K 05 F150 Silver 44K |
#10
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In the event they do want to do something like total out the car, what is the major drawback to getting a salvage title? Is it just a red flag making resale impossible?
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I never go far without a little Big Star 1994 E500 199/Gray 82k 84 300D (Salty) Orient Red/Palomino 141k 88 300CE (Ersatzhammer) 904/Java 163k -- Turbo Technics twin turbo kit, AMG Gen I body kit, Sportline steering box and steering wheel, Sportline/Eibach /Bilstein Sport/500E suspension, Quaife LSD in 210 mm diff case, Silver Arrow brakes. 88 300CE Brabus 3.6 199 on Black 44k |
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"However, when it is a special interest car, or a rare one, -- and I know EXACTLY what the E500 is!!!---by the way,--- you should SERIOUSLY consider hiring a professional automobile appraiser. Yes, it may actually cost you a few hundreds of dollars to have that done, but the results are usually inarguable, it is like an investment to do that sometimes, that will pay you back far higher than what the appraiser's fee cost."
Where do you find a professional auto appraiser? Is that the same thing as an independent adjuster? It's funny, I'm a lawyer and I work for an insurance company and just when you think you know a little bit about something, you find yourself in a situation which you proves you don't know much at all. I actually work in surety bonds, not car insurance, but after a while you think you know the business a bit.
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I never go far without a little Big Star 1994 E500 199/Gray 82k 84 300D (Salty) Orient Red/Palomino 141k 88 300CE (Ersatzhammer) 904/Java 163k -- Turbo Technics twin turbo kit, AMG Gen I body kit, Sportline steering box and steering wheel, Sportline/Eibach /Bilstein Sport/500E suspension, Quaife LSD in 210 mm diff case, Silver Arrow brakes. 88 300CE Brabus 3.6 199 on Black 44k |
#12
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Quote:
Independent adjusters are like independent contractors, hired by very small Insurance companies to adjust property, vehicle or casualty Insurance claims, and sometimes by large insurance companies to cope with an overload of claims that need to be adjusted. An independent appraiser is also an independent contractor, but think of them like Real Estate Appraisers. Their job is simply to assess the condition of something and arrive at a fair market value. They are not hard to find. Some even do it online. Google is your friend. Here are a few maybe in Philadelphia to start others, elsewhere..... http://www.autoappraisal.com/locneast.htm http://www.usaautoappraisers.com/appraiserfaqs.htm http://www.automotiveappraisals.com/id10.html http://www.accuratevalue.com/faq.html
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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ... 1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold) 2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp 1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k 2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold) |
#13
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Quote:
1. You are paid the fair market value of the car (less your deductible, if you are going through your own Insurance company or simply paid in full if being paid by the adverse party's insurance company. If liability on the other side is clear, such as if you were rear ended, always not your fault, you can ask your insurance to "waive your deductible". The deductible is ALWAYS waive in the event of a "cross insured loss" where both drivers in the accident have the same insurance company, because the Insurance Company would never sue itself 2. You want to buy back the totalled out car and fix it yourself. In those situations, which sometimes happens, the policy holder receives the fair market value LESS the deductible (as stated above) and LESS the salvage value, and then gets to have the car back, to try and fix. The salvage value is what the market value of the totalled out car's "wreckage" would be worth to junkyards who would part out the car. The insurance might ask a couple of them for bids to find out how much that would be.. In those situations, typically, the policy holder MUST sign over the title of the car to the Insurance company, which in turn "sells" the car back to the policyholder under the conditions mentioned above, and then the owner tows or drives (if it is a "driveable total loss") away. Salvage title cars are totalled out ones due to collision damage which are later repaired, cars that have been stolen and recovered, or stripped, or were in floods, or other situations. In many or most cases salvage title cars are worth on the open market about 50% less than non salvage title cars. Flood cars, and seriously damaged but repaired cars especially, are worth little on the market because basically, they are junk that was put back on the road. Sometimes theft returns or a "light strip" can be a bargain for savvy rebuilders or people who can fix them with parts bought cheaply. People are wary of salvage cars because a lot of fraud invlving "washed" salvage titles when cars are re registered in several successive states to go from a salvage to a clean title. Depending on the situation, they can be a good or an awful deal, for a buyer or a seller. But the salvage title cars are ALWAYS worth less, all other things being equal. I hope that helps.
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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ... 1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold) 2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp 1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k 2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold) |
#14
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A friend who is a 500E valuation expert. & a very funny story
If you wish, orif it comes to that, I have a close friend with a shop who is a 1992-1995 E500/500E fanatic and expert who could probably help you greatly in discussing the values of these cars, salvage or not.
He owns three of them personally, one of which is a Katrina flood 500E that he bought and is rebuilding. He scours the internet and other sources, and is a keen and constant observer of the current values and trends of the prices of the E500 and 500E. He locates for his customers, and buys and sells the best examples of them on a constant basis. You can PM me if you would like to be put in touch with him Many of the very very best ones are bought and sold among members of the enthusiast fourms that cater to them. Often the owners never even advertise them on the market, and they want the cars to go to a caring buyer who will take care of their "baby" I personally feel that all things considered theE500/500E are probably the best sedans Mercedes Benz EVER made. They have a fanatic cult following. I have driven one. I know what it can do. I would almost sell my soul to own one of them. Just like the there is a hard core base of BMW followers who maintain that the only real BMW is the 2002, there is a lunatic fringe within that subset who feel the only real BMW 2002 is the 2002 tii, and so it is with Mercedes enthusaists. One such person owns an E500, which he debadged, BUT place a custom chromed license plate frame on the car that read PORSCHE. This inevitably elicited one of just two reactions from passersby and in traffic. Either reaction was HIGHLY amusing. Some people would scratch their heads and ask,"What is this, is there some mistake"? Others would merely nod, and give him an amused, wry and knowing grin. My friend is another such person. He related to me that Porsche's long time marketing slogan was "Porsche - There is no substitute" One of his E 500 sedans sports a discreet badge on the trunk which reads simply, "The Substitute" It is the the ultimate "in" joke for the 500E cognoscenti. You either get it or you don't. You are either on the bus or you are not on the bus. You just gotta love this guy.
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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ... 1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold) 2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp 1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k 2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold) Last edited by Jim B.; 10-21-2007 at 08:57 AM. |
#15
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First off, when determining "book" value, go with NADA (not KBB). NADA stands for National Auto Dealers Association: so who do you think the figures favor in that book? Exactly, the dealers... so the prices are higher.
Also, this would be a totally different situation if the accident were your fault and you were dealing with YOUR insurance company. You have a "contract" with your insurance company. You've agreed to an annual premium based on the replacement value of your car as determined by "book" value. If you feel the car is worth more than "book" then you need to speak with your agent and pay a higher premium for a higher replacement cost. You have no "contract" with this insurance company. They don't just owe you some arbitrary figure for your car, they need to make you whole. You had a perfectly functioning, well maintained car... now you don't! They need to either repair your car to the condition it was before their client destroyed it, or they need to buy you a comparable car. (The words in bold are the most important.) Why should you have to comb through the classified ads, and ebay to find the car from a private seller? You should be able to get the replacement from a dealer. (so then we're talking RETAIL price) If they offer a lowball figure, tell them to go ahead and find a replacement for that price. (they won't) And while they're doing that, you'll continue to drive the rental car they are providing. It's amazing how the prospect of them paying $40 a day while you or they hunt endlessly for a car that doesn't exist will motivate them to re-adjust their adjustment. Good luck, and stick to your guns.
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Jeff Pierce Current Vehicles: '92 Mercedes 190E/2.3 (247K miles/my daily driver) '93 Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon (263K miles/a family truckster with spunk) '99 Kawasaki Concours Gravely 8120 Previous Vehicles: '85 Jeep CJ-7 w/ Fisher plow (226K miles)'93 Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon '53 Willys-Overland Pickup '85 Honda 750F Interceptor '93 Nissan Quest '89 Toyota Camry Wagon '89 Dodge Raider '81 Honda CB 750F Super Sport '88 Toyota Celica '95 Toyota Tacoma '74 Honda CB 550F |
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