Sea Foam revisited - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Robert Squires · #1 11-03-2007, 12:51 PM

* These days I primarily work on the 10-30 yr old MBs, with a car newer than 10 yr old in here and there. Decarbonizing an intake manifold and cyl head ports on the older cars, safely and inexpensively using the "wonders of chemistry", is always a popular topic.
* I recall, from 5 years ago or so, a 944 (Porsche) customer who had had a "decarbonizing" service done at a high-volume, quick-tune shop and now had a noise that sounded like piston slap. I pulled the cylinder head and indeed found the cylinders scored. After pulling and disassembling the engine, I found the piston skirts to be scored even worse. That turned out to be an expensive, not-so-quick-tune. Unfortunately I never learned the brand name of the decarbonizing agent. The customer said he watched while the cleaner was fed to the running engine through a vac supply port. The decarbonizing agent very likely was the popular Sea Foam; however there are probably several other decarbonizing agents on the market that are delivered the same way.
* That experience convinced me that the direct-feed decarbonizing could create much more trouble than it solved. Of course Porsche has used different metalurgy in their cylinders and pistons (e.g. Nikasil coatings), so that may have just been the perfect storm scenario. At any rate, direct-feeding a decarbonizing agent shouldn't be just a weekend recreational activity. It should only follow a thorough search for any other performance-robbing maintenance issue. Hence I only add decarbonizing agents to the tank, and Sea Foam is my favorite since it's also a fuel stabilizer (for storage).
* I've read the Sea Foam search threads and watched a number of Sea Foam videos on YouTube, but nothing has convinced me to risk a direct-feed. I'd like to read some pertinent before-after testimonials.
* By the way, the only additive that is, as far as I know, FAA approved (and they don't approve anything easily), is Z-Max. It's the only preventive-maintenance additive (package) I use (not direct-feed) once a year in my own car ('90 300CE 24v).

rjk · #2 11-03-2007, 01:56 PM

I have used seafoam on my fleet of volvos. The guys on the brickboard swear by it. After using it on one vehicle, I had reason to remove the head (about a year later) and noticed no scoring of any sort in the cylinders. In fact, after 200k miles, the factory hone marks were still plainly visible. So I have not experienced any deleterious effects from the use of Seafoam and will continue to use it on any older cast iron block engines I service. However, considering your experience, I will not use it on any Porshes I run across.

Robert Squires · #3 11-04-2007, 01:28 PM

* rjk, thanks for the response. But you failed to mention whether you just add Sea Foam to the tank or whether you direct-feed it into the running engine. I think you mean, implicitly, that you direct-feed it, but I'm not sure.
* And, if you direct-feed it, how do you decide when the engine would benefit from the process? Or do you have a predetermined preventive-maintenance schedule (and the service happens even if they're running great)?
* So you've used Sea Foam primarily in the B23 series Volvo engine? Any B23FTs in that group?
* Which Mercedes models have you direct-fed Sea Foam, and how did that turn out (symptoms before, engine reaction during direct-feed, and performance after)?

blueeagle289 · #4 11-06-2007, 08:46 AM

I recently used the BG product with direct feed into my 300CE and it did a marvelous job of perking up the engine (which was running very well before that). I noticed even better engine performance, especially at the lower ranges of acceleration and was much impressed.

I don't know how the piston wall scoring occurs, but there is no proof that the event discussed here was due to the direct feed of Sea Foam? To make that statement, one would have to examine the engine first -- then use Sea Foam or another such agent, and find the scoring immediately after that activity?!

I will continue to use the BG product or perhaps Sea Foam for injector cleaning, unless some positive proof emerges that it can be harmful...... Ben Carter

eagle-co94 · #5 11-06-2007, 09:04 AM

I use it direct feed on all my cars (not yet on the 280CE though). On my wife's wagon and my SS (and all other b-bodies I've owned) I pull off the vacuum line to the brake booster (as it's the exact outside diameter of the bottle opening. 1/3 can? Nah, I use the whole thing and smoke out the neighborhood! I've only done it once per engine/car though.

Mike Murrell · #6 11-06-2007, 06:19 PM

Interesting that I find this post here today. Just a min ago over at toyotanation.com, a knowledgeable member there posted a how-to on using this product to clean the intake on a 2005 model Camry.

I realize that in this thread we are dealing with older cars. but he provides some interesting info about where to feed it from. You'll have to corelate his thoughts to your situation, but if you understand how your vehicle operates, that should not be a problem.

In the cut-n-paste that follows, he suggests that hydro-locking can occur if too much is fed or if it's fed thru the wrong spot. Just because you have vacuum doesn't mean you should hook up there. I believe that damage done to vehicles occurs not so much becuase they used a specific product, but because they fed it to the intake at the wrong place.

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As stated in the thread title, I SeaFoamed my Camry today. I'll share my experience and some advice for others, if they're interested.

First off, I made sure that the car was completely warmed up by driving to get the SeaFoam. This ensures that the catalytic convertor is hot so that it can more easily burn off all the residue that it will encounter.

I removed the vacuum hose at the VSV for the Evap system that's located on the air intake tube after the MAF sensor. This line goes to the base of the throttle body. Do not add any SeaFoam above the throttle body. With the car running I then inserted the vacuum hose into the can of SeaFoam and SLOWLY let the hose suck up the SeaFoam. After a few seconds the car stalled. I restarted the car and started sucking up the SeaFoam more slowly this time. When the car will barely stay running you're adding it at the perfect rate. The car would idle faster as the SeaFoam was being added allowing you to add it faster. It's hard to balance it perfectly and the car stalled again. I restarted it and added the last little bit. Be sure to remove the vacuum hose from the SeaFoam before restarting the car. If you suck too much into the engine you can cause damage. Never stall the engine on purpose either. If too much cleaner puddles in the intake, damage may result. For this reason I do not recommend using the brake booster hose. It's very large and can allow way too much cleaner to get into the engine at one time.

I reinstalled the VSV vacuum hose and proceeded to drive the car until all the smoke was gone. The harder you drive it the better. You want to get all of the SeaFoam out of the intake, work loose any carbon, and completely clean out the convertor. It took four 0-70 MPH runs for the car to stop smoking.

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eagle-co94 · #7 11-09-2007, 09:39 PM

Keep in mind, I'm using Seafoam on a 350ci (5.7 L) V-8. While I'm under the hood I'm holding the throttle open to maintain an idle or just above idle rpm. I would think that adding so much that the motor stalls is asking for trouble right off the bat. On the Impala forum it was suggested not to drive the car until the smoke is gone, but to merely let it run its course and to blip the throttle occasionally to ensure everything is breaking up and moving out. Not sure if it makes much difference, I guess isolating the massive smoke cloud to one area is just fun.

rjk · #8 11-12-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Squires

* rjk, thanks for the response. But you failed to mention whether you just add Sea Foam to the tank or whether you direct-feed it into the running engine. I think you mean, implicitly, that you direct-feed it, but I'm not sure.
* And, if you direct-feed it, how do you decide when the engine would benefit from the process? Or do you have a predetermined preventive-maintenance schedule (and the service happens even if they're running great)?
* So you've used Sea Foam primarily in the B23 series Volvo engine? Any B23FTs in that group?
* Which Mercedes models have you direct-fed Sea Foam, and how did that turn out (symptoms before, engine reaction during direct-feed, and performance after)?

Sorry, I've been out of town. Yes, I direct feed when I notice the engine starting to ping when I use regular gas (the B230FT computer adjusts for ping but you can feel the decrease in performance when the spark is retarded).

As stated above, B230FT, nonetheless, it is pretty much the same as the others when you get right down to it, most of the engine differences are in the head and engine management systems, not the block.

I direct fed a 300TE with good results and plan on a 560SL soon.

brandob9 · #9 11-21-2007, 02:32 PM

Which entry point works well for a M103?

rjk · #10 11-21-2007, 04:55 PM

I would search out the smallest vacuum line that enters the throttle body AFTER (below) the throttle plate. That should ensure a relatively even distribution to all cylinders. Usually a hose to a charcoal canister works well (if your model has one).

If you feed it at an extreme end of the manifold, it may not get to all the cylinders equitably.

As stated in an earlier post, don't feed it into the intake system above the throttle plate (the air cleaner side). You want it to atomize and coat the parts. The further it has to travel, the more likely it will find a place to pool (like where it would bang into the closed or barely open throttle plate).

E150GT · #11 02-11-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjk

I would search out the smallest vacuum line that enters the throttle body AFTER (below) the throttle plate. That should ensure a relatively even distribution to all cylinders. Usually a hose to a charcoal canister works well (if your model has one).

If you feed it at an extreme end of the manifold, it may not get to all the cylinders equitably.

As stated in an earlier post, don't feed it into the intake system above the throttle plate (the air cleaner side). You want it to atomize and coat the parts. The further it has to travel, the more likely it will find a place to pool (like where it would bang into the closed or barely open throttle plate).

Did you do it on the 560sl yet? I am interested in doing this on my 420sel and since they are basically the same I would like to know how it came out and where you fed the line from. Thanks.