95 E320 will not crank- help anybody!!!
 

my 95 e320 refused to crank. Switch and dash lights appear normal. Battery reads 12.5 volts. No clicks or any other sound when turned to crank position.
I locked and unlocked the car thinking there may be some ignition lockout associated with anti theft. I checked all the fuses under the hood. no recent service or mechanical work. Any advice or direction appreciated.

ray:confused:

Try "N" and spin fuse # 5................

Thanks AD, I did spin all the fuses and I tried holding the start position as i moved the shift to either side of neutral. The reverse lights are on in R but if moved from neutral to R i have to move the shifter to between R and P to get the reverse lights. They do come on and stay on when coming from P to R. I thought I would get something on either side of neutral even if there was an alignment issue.
Any more advice still appreciated.

Change fuse 5 and repost

number 5 fuse
 

AD, I changed the number 5 and no start yet. My fuse box label says num 5 is for stop lamp, instrument,front roof light, electric bulb control, cruise control,tach. Does that sound like what you were shooting for?

My schematics for that chassis/yr -Fuse 5 is ATA K38 interlock relay coil side. [ assuming you are giving me the correct year 124.032]

OK
There is a 3 wire terminal block/connector to the left of brake fluid resersoir [ on inner firewall]
Unplug that and then jumper a wire from the battery + to the center connector at that plug [ not the connector/harness you unplugged, but the one mounted to the firewall. [ where V/Wt wire went.]

make sure Key is OFF and trans is in P.
Does starter engage w/test?????????????????????

If yes , trouble is upstream from that X27 connector.[ NSS or K38 relay]
.if NO, downstream.. [ starter/sol, etc]

thanks for the test
 

AD, I jumped the lead and it does crank. I had looked at other forum posts on the NSS replacement but wondered Where/How to check the K38 relay you mentioned.

Thanks for all the help so far.

OK

Try putting the alarm On/off a few times before we go into the NSS and K38 circuit test.

AD, I read your instruction to user named Blankers in 7/2007 regarding similar problem with e300. I will go try the alarm (I assume you mean by locking doors with the key ( I don't know of another alarm arm feature)).
I will also check the fuse labels for anything ATA related.

OK

Your problem has been narrowed down to NSS or K38 contacts.
The X27 connector we addressed is downstream from them and the chain is Ign sw >NSS>K38 interlock>K27..so we know K27 and On are verified.
Reason for alalm ON/Off is b/c each time you do that , the K38 contacts open/close ..so, if we have a poor contact set, that will give us an indication..

I have the schematic and there are a few more jumper test that will verify which part of the circuit is at fault, but try alarm first...

Give me that Blankers link to save me repeat typing ....

*Note:

For any following this thread, pay attention to the X27 jumper trick b/c this will save you a tow truck if you get caught somewhere in the Bonnies with a bad NSS or K38 relay problem..crude , but will get you home ..
Print it out and throw it in the glovebox.

I tried locking and unlocking the doors several times. no start but I just learned the alarm is not working. The red diode is not lit and reaching through an open window to unlock a door does not activate an alarm. I did check all the fuse locations with VM (on the copper as you suggested) all (except lights which were off) seem to be reading just under 12 volts.

OK

Hold on...I just got back...

I think this is the link to the exchange with Blankers
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/193859-1995-e300-starter-won%92t-crank.html?highlight=k38+relay

Yeah, I remember him now..I posted the schematic but then I dropped it for room...bummer ..that would make it easy for you to follow

Well, anyway, you get the picture from that thread, but I will run this by you...

We will start at x27 and work back to ign switch:

V/W from x27 goes thru the main cabin firewall and down under the the drivers side dash [around the gas pedal area]...look there and you will see a 4 prong plug-X49/2.
The V/W will be #4 of that plug and #3 will be V/Grn...those 2 wires go to NSS..so, put the gear shift in P and jumper those two wires [V/GRN and V/W]..then try the starter w/ign key...if YES , then you need a NSS ..if NO , we have to go to next circuit [ which is K38]

Also, You said you checked all fuses , but recheck 11,12, and specially 'B" for ATA led activation power....

Thanks AD, I will get on it in the morning. By the way, I could find nothing that was labeled ata in the fuse box but will double check suggested tomorrow. Again thanks for all the time and effort today.

Fuse B is ATA

But , ATA not working should not stop car from starting b/c the car is supposed to start with Alarm OFF.

But no led may be that fuse [ or 11/12]

Morning,
I'm stymied. I see where the wiring goes thru the firewall but I can't access anything.
(I've managed to loose my CD manuals as well). I can see a two wire plug (round on top the the accelerator hits at max travel BUT I'm sure that's not the x49-2. I can see a small access panel in the black panel under and to the right of the steering column but can only get my fingers on a two wire plug (not even sure I could unfasten them). Now I'm trying to figure out how to remove the interior panel covers.
Looks like the knee bolster has to be dropped first then remove the black plastic cover that extends down toward the pedals. I'm leery of screwing up on the interior panels without instruction. I hate to give up at this point. I will look for and image showing x49-2 location on the forum.

I think it is under the rug on the tunnel next to pedal, but I do not remember for sure...I will look it up on the CD location section in a bit..
If that is a hassel, you can also umplug the NSS and juper there @terminals 50 and 50R or you can pull the cluster and try the K38.
If you do finds that plug in the meantime and the NSS jumper does not work, then take a V test at the same V/GRN with the key to start..if NO , then there is no pwer from the K38 and that is where you have to go next.[ meaning the problem is K38 or Ign sw]

AD, If you're there, I got the cover off and exposed the x49. Now do I jump 3&4 in the female side that stayed on the base or to the male side that came unplugged and goes back thru the firewall. I'll make up the jumpers and wait to hear from you.

You can leave it plugged in and just jumper the V/WT and V/GRN.
If you have already unplugged it, you jumper the side that comes from X27..thereby eliminating the NSS .. After that jumper is installed , you still have to use the key for starter...........[you know that, but some don't]

Well, upon inspecting the plug, the top cap comes off and I can pull the violet leads right out, replace the cap and replug. I should then just connect the violet leads together(one is v/w the other is solid v) and try the key. waiting just to be sure I've got this right.

<<one is v/w the other is solid v)>>

Recheck that..look real close for that tracer color

#4 should be V/WT and #3 is V/GN..
Solid V is not NSS , but rather ign sw according to your schematic.

Verify before jumper.

AD, I checked the colors again and one is v/w the other solid v. Both of the these wires are heavy gage. The other wires are blk/rd and Gray/yel both medium gage. There is a fifth light gage Gray/yel with what looks like an in line fuse holder a few inches away. I did not find a fuse inside but it appears to be a bullet connector. I assume the lite wire goes on the same terminal as the other Gray yel.
I took photos but can't figure out how to attach an image. I could email it though.
The plug is square and the part that comes free routes down and out thru the firewall low right behind the accelerator pedal. let me know if you want to see the image.

I think you are at connector x42/18. [ 6 prong]

Do you have a Canadian car??

not Canadian. I have published photos and description here:
http://web.mac.com/fulltimefamily/iWeb/Site/Photos.html

OK
Give me a # match for the colors so we know for sure...maybe this schematic color tracer is incorrect..

This is what I have at x49/2

#3-V/GN
#4-V/WT

Also #1 is B/R and #2 is G/Y...
so, you do have the correct plug...i guess the tracer is just not as the schematic shows..

Conclusion..The 2 V will jumper NSS.

I've got v/wt on #4 and V on #3.
It's definitely a 4 prong connector.

OK

See my previous/edited post

So I'm going to plug back in and connect the two violet wires out side the plug.
I could rig it so that all four are plugged in and jumper from the back of the plug if necessary.

Yes
Put it back together and then just jumper 3 and 4 by backprobing the connector .. that will bypass the NSS. All is you are doing is shunting the wires before they get to the NSS
If that works , you need NSS..if not, then we need to see if you have power from K38..
Try that first

ok ,will try and post.

..........and Make sure the shifter is in "P"

jump it and no start.

OK

I see you have a meter [ or test lamp] , so ..
Test for 12v from a good ground - and + lead on terminal #3 [ your V] at x49/2 with the key in the START position.............

no voltage on either 3 or 4 in off or start position. Both 3 & 4 show low to no omhs of resistance to ground in any position. This is wrong, Right?

You want to clarify that?

Are you telling me you have full continuity from ground to either V wire??
..or do you mean no cont.

full continuity from ground on both wires.

and by the way, I did test that I was getting 12v at the x27 center pin with ignition switched to start this morning.

...and ??????
Did the starter spin?

no , I didn't jump it to 12 volts. We had tested that yesterday. I just put the volt meter on the switch side to see if I was getting 12volts when switch turned to start. To be double sure, I just went out again and jumped from the battery to x27 and started the car. I put the voltmeter on the switch side of x27 and got 10.5-11.5 volts when turning the switch to start. I don't understand why it won't start with the switch in this condition.

The starter draw is too much for the k38 contacts to handle , but they will handle the low draw of a test lamp or meter.

My suspect is the k38 and the cluster has to be pulled to get to it.
The terminals you want to jumper there are 1 & 3, which are relay terminals 30 and 87.

That will eliminate the K38 from the starter circuit.

You also have a ATA problem that may or may not be the reason for the K38 not working, but that is another story. I still would recheck all fuses to see if you can get the LED ARM lamp to come on..did you check the other ATA fuses I mentioned?

I also would like to be sure your battery is up to full charge.

Most guys that have ATA failure just jumper the k38 permanently by soldering a jumper across the K38 terminals 30 and 87 on the relay and plug it back in and be done with it...you only loose Alarm starter interlock.
If relay does not do the trick, check the ignition sw,...I have another test for that.
The power goes from bat+ to ign/sw, to K38, to NSS , to X27, to starter......just for your info on the series chain logic...any open circuit/contacts/poor connections in that chain results in no power to starter.

going in reverse order... It seems as though I have power all the way thru the circuit to x27. And when I supply power direct to x27 from Bat I get start. This puzzles me.

I do have a nice battery charger and topped everything up and battery reads 12.5 I will test it under load though.

I'm not familiar with the k38 or pulling the instrument cluster. any pointers to forum discussion appreciated.

I was puzzled by the continuity on x49/2 here is the break down for your mental fun.
i = infinite resistance
0= zero resistance

In Park
Switch on
1=i
2=0
3=0
4=0
switch off
1=0
2=0
3=0
4=0

In Reverse
switch on
1=i
2=i
3=i
4=0
switch off
1=0
2=0
3=i
4=0

in neutral
switch on
1=i
2=0
3=i
4=0
switch off
1=0
2=0
3=i
4=0
I can't find any fuses labeled with ata but have replaced number 5 and tested all.

Your R checks mean nothing b/c NSS does not just intigrate the starter circuit..it also feeds Ea , ASR , TNNsignal, etc...so , until you isolate every one of those circuits , you can not check the starter circuit.
So , we go in the sequece chain as I posted...

If you are getting power to x27 and no starter, but you get starter with x27 bat jumper. then you do not have sufficient power at x27 from the logic chain [ ign/sw/nss/k38/etc] ...to trigger the starter soinoid...ie, a poor connection in that feed ... Power to X27 has to be the SAME as Bat voltage or someting is bad....that is why we jumper each link in that chain..
to find which one is the culprit....somewhere in that chain is a voltage open or drop....your ohms readings are not needed on this application.I will see if I can post the schematic for starter circuit and then it will be very plain to see this series circuit.
I know it is hard for you to visualize , as it is hard for me to read the schematic and have you come at me with physical wire discriptions and questions.

thanks for all the help.
I didn't know if the resistance readings were a clue. Will wait to hear from you on what to try next.

What to try next has been posted back in post #41.
You have to get to the K38 relay and jumper as described in that post.

thanks AD. I will read thru the forum to try and figure out how to pull the cluster.

Did any body mention posible faulty ignition switch? I didnt read all the the pages. I would take the switch out with a paper clip and turn it with a screw driver to see if you get power to the starter.

Yes , we did... the ign sw is in the feed circuit we are checking now.

morning update. I listed this as a new thread in case someone has had a similar situation with arming the ata.

I am running through diagnostics with the very patient help of A. Dalton. We have covered testing fuses, battery, x27 x49 and are up to pulling the instrument cluster to check k38.
Before I did that I wanted to post what i discovered this morning about the ATA system in hopes that someone my have experience that would help me.
The ATA led would not arm from the driver's side door. Today i discovered that it will arm (start flashing on the dash) from the rear hatch and from the passenger side door. The drivers side door will not disarm the alarm. IE if i unlock the driver door and open the alarms go off. However if i then close the door and lock it the alarm is disabled. Both the passenger door and hatch will arm and disarm the system. I tried cranking each time between arming and disarming by various doors but still no crank. At least I know the ATA led is powered now.

To be darn sure, I took the battery for testing and sure enough... it failed the test generating 580cca and 12.7 volts. Seems kinda borderline but at least it was the correct battery (by interstate book) and i ordered a new one for late today or tomorrow. That will go in and i will post results.