HELP! Is this another Service Advisor rip off or what? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lou-in-nj · #1 06-14-2008, 06:28 AM

I am still putting up with the temperament of my ’99 E430. One of the dozen service advisors the dealership I go to called me with an estimate on the repairs for both solicited and unsolicited items. First let me say that these “service centers” must be profit centers for dealerships. If this one guy wrote 2 or3 cars up like mine everyday, along with other’s regular service, he alone would be writing over $10,000.00 a day in business. Although this guy’s demeanor is better than other’s I have dealt with, I still get the impression these guys are hucksters leading sheep to the slaughter.

Anyway here it is:

1. My d.s. rear power window was all the way down and when I went to put it up I heard a metal pop sound, like the lifting lever broke or popped out of place. He tells me that I need a new “regulator” and that is $300+ .
2. Air conditioning is again stuck in economy mode and he confirmed my idea that it was low freon. He wants to put a dye in the system and have me drive the car for a week or so to find the leak. I thought that is why they made freon detectors? $195
3. ABS BAS lamps are on again and he says this time it is the steering angle sensor $700 and the transmission “sensor plate” $600+
4. He said my valve cover gaskets are leaking badly and it would be $300+ to replace. Aren’t these synthetic and just need tightening? Secondly, if they were that bad I should need oil and see oil in my driveway or smell it burning and have my oil light level come on. No?
5. Gear shifter H gate doesn’t allow me to shift through the H to get past drive. He says the shifter is shot and needs to be replaced. $600+
6. New front tires with alignment. $450+
7. New hood ornament. $55

So there it is, over $3800.00
I only went to the dealer since it near my work and I couldn’t keep my car in the parking lot all day with the window down. Well they never seem to disappoint. He says they’ll work on it Monday. So I need opinions on what is worth it and what I should just have my regular guy take care of. I told the S.A. I am ready to get rid of this car and I just don’t want to put a lot of money into it now. I think he would be surprised if I walked in Monday and just took my car back, but I thought I would first see what opinions here are. I look forward to hearing your advice.

t walgamuth · #2 06-14-2008, 07:33 AM

I would go to my regular guy. Get some plastic or cardboard and some duct tape and cover the window.

Tom W

lou-in-nj · #3 06-14-2008, 08:15 AM

Please, before everyone replies with "take it to your other guy", I am really looking for insight into the validity and cost of what these items represent. For example, if valve cover gaskets do fail and they are a pain in the ass to replace, I may as well let them do it for $300.

Johnhef · #4 06-14-2008, 09:01 AM

1) $300 for the regulator sounds pretty cheap- I thought the part is somewhere in the $200 range and its 2 or 2.5hours to put it in.

2) thats the typical a/c "find the leak" scenario. If no leaks are obviously visible, I recharge the system with dye and drive it around a bit then recheck and see if anything has leaked- if nothing then we release the car and tell them to come back after putting some miles on it. Believe me, I'd want to find a leak!

3) first part, yes that can make it come on, transmission plate...uh...what? its not going to cause a BAS light. check engine light, yes, BAS/ABS light, no.

4) that probably included resealing the breather covers on the valve covers, which is the more common of the oil leaks and can leak quite a bit. Theyre sealed with RTV and just retightening won't do anything.

5) possibly, can't say for sure unless I see it.

6) what brand? cost of tires + 1.0 mount and balance (at your shops rate) + $90 alignment = $450? very possibly.

7) do it yourself.

TMAllison · #5 06-14-2008, 12:07 PM

The window reg is prob cheap at dealer rates. I did my drivers rear in about 2 hours (had never done it before) and the part on this site is $112. I got a chinese reg for about 1/2 that cost and after 1 year and 20-30 uses now get to do it again.

The shifter issue could be simply bad bushings but as JH said, no way of knowing w/o looking further.

The steering angle is reset by turning the wheel lock to lock a few times.

Dont know how the trans sensor plate (valve body?) affects ABS. Perhaps it is an output speed sensor instead?

MB's can be expensive to keep in tip top shape; helps if you are able todo some of the work yourself or have a good indy you can work with.

lou-in-nj · #6 06-14-2008, 12:48 PM

Thanks, so far you have made me feel better about telling him to do the A/C, window regulator & valve covers. It sounds like there pricing is on the high side of fair pricing. I will probably take the car to my "regular guy" for the ABS/BAS stuff since he fixed last time and it actually went almost a year before the error reappeared (prior to his effort, the dealerships' multiple repairs lasted less than 6 months each.
__________________________________________________
Engineered to take your money like no other car in the world.

nissanzx1 · #7 06-14-2008, 01:27 PM

Sounds as if the car has been neglected for a period of time with all the listed issues.

You don't want to mess with the window regulator so have them do that.

If I was you, I'd also have them look at the a/c system too. That is just something a professional Mercedes guy needs to be looking at. Plan on them finding some $800 problem with that. Nothing on a Benz a/c system is cheap it seems.

The rest of it take to your independent guy. Go get the tires at a tire store, they won't screw you quite as bad. Best to just replace all of them at the same time.

The hood star is a do it yourself thing $25 part.

Good Luck,

-GH

Matt L · #8 06-14-2008, 01:30 PM

The rear window regulators are quite easy to change. The hard part is getting the interior door panel off and back on, which makes the job somewhat time-consuming.

fpharryc · #9 06-14-2008, 04:53 PM

Need to do it yourself. Don't know how? Learn it.

Nothing is cheap when you ask somebody to do it for you.

lou-in-nj · #10 06-15-2008, 04:48 AM

That's pretty funny. I would say the car has neglected me with all the parts that have broken or failed for no good reason! Whoever heard a of a gear shifter breaking, an antenna amplifier breaking or worse yet, spring perches collapsing? As far as knowing how to do it myself, I have rebuilt several engines including Chevy's and VW's, replaced several clutches, exclusively done brake jobs on every car I have ever owned, along with scores of other automotive repairs. I am tired of replacing $600 parts in order to repair an ABS system that has already had 3 other $600 part put in it! I can understand fatigue and failure, but when the computer decides it isn't going to close your moon roof on this particular occasion, what the hell is that about? The last thing you expect on an MB, is parts just breaking like it were a Jaguar from the '80s!

crashone · #11 06-15-2008, 08:27 AM

Has anyone gotten up under the car to see if the linkage is twisted up for the shifter? Sounds like you can spin a wrench. Also sounds like you want some one to tell you "yeah you gotta crappy car-trash it- junk it getitdahellouttaheere!!" So there you go. But really if you know a good mechanic have them troubleshoot the problems, now that you know what they are from the MBSA. If it's the same one that you go to who hasn't been able to get it right, find better one. As for the hood star, if you should happen to live in one of those wonderful, beautimus areas of NJ where they tend to "fall off" regularly, maybe a flat MB hood plug would help keep it in place. Good Luck.

tyl604 · #12 06-15-2008, 11:59 AM

I do not know this car but I know my 81 300SD. The window regulator has a plastic slide which is designed to break, my guess is to protect the regulator from over spec strain. In the SD the slide is riveted in but I have drilled out the rivet and replaced the slide in three of the four windows and never had a problem.

It could be that your newer regulator does not work this way and another post says it is tedious to take off the door panel. However, since you sound like you have mechanical experience, you might want to spend a little time and remove the door panel and give it a look. My recollection is that the regulator is about $300 but I never found the regulator to be bad. Again this is on an ancient 1981 300SD. You may find a combination of plastic pop rivets and plastic retainers (cannot think of the word but they are permanently attached to the panel - you slide the panel and retainers out of the metal door; they snug up the panel to the door frame); make sure you do not break the plastic retainers. Might be called clips.

Jim B. · #13 06-15-2008, 12:36 PM

There was a thread elsewhere - I am pretty sure in Open Discussion pretty recently, within the last week or so, that was initiated by a Mercedes Benz Service Advisor "ServiceAdvisorGuy" or someone, that had the ring of sincerity and truth.

It gave a detailed rundown of the compensation package that Mercedes Service Advisors, (supposedly the liasion between the customer and the actual dealer tech that worked on the car) and it was eye opening, to put it mildly.

Basically the Mercedes Benz dealers have a system in place that ties their pay to HOW MUCH EXTRA LABOR TIME THEY CAN "write", they get a commission of some sort for each extra hour of labor they can write up on repairs not really needed.

It is a scam, and they don't like it, but they have to try and do it, just to make more money for themselves and the dealer.

So, for Mercedes Benz dealer repairs you need to be very very savvy as a customer, if not you WILL get fleeced - most certainly.

The SA does NOT have an easy life. The dealer is incessantly hounding him to "write" more hours, and he has to field calls all day long by stupid customers that whine about how thier car was not washed properly, they thought there was sexual harrassment, and all manner of stupid complaints.

It is well worth the read. It explains how the system works.

Jim B. · #14 06-15-2008, 12:50 PM

OK, I found the link.

Here's a taste, from the first post by him. NOT a Mercedes Benz dealer this time, but you get the idea of how they work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The hours and the pay structure are getting on my nerves. I work 55 hours per week 3 weeks out of the month and 64 hours on the weeks I work Saturdays, not including the time I don't leave "on time" due to some disaster or late customer.
Here's just a few things I walked into this morning:
- Young lady picked up her car Saturday morning and left this voice mail: "Can you please tell the guy who brings my car up to stop hitting on me. It's the second time and it makes me very uncomfortable."
- Guy I bent over for last Friday, getting him in 3 days ahead of our appointment schedule, ****s me on the survey call: "The car could have been done quicker" and scores me a 68.5. Granted I didn't have a loaner car for him as I explained we were booking for Wednesday (last) when he wanted to get his car in (Friday May 30th), but his car was done THAT day, ahead of some others.
- 2008 A8 in for it's first service Friday. One complaint was the right rear tire losing air. Guess what's back still losing air ?

What I ultimately take home at the end of the month relies on that damn CSI survey but there is so much that effects that overall score that is beyond my control. So many other people have a hand in the client's overall satisfaction but their pay does not suffer.
EXAMPLE: Let's say that I get paid $5.50 for every hour of service I write for the month - cash, warranty and internal (pre-delivery inspections,etc). If my cash/customer pay average is 2.5hrs per repair order, add $2.00 per hour. Then, if our CSI score is at or above our region, add another $2.00.
So let's say I write 600 hrs worth of service for the month, if all falls into line, that's $5700.00 for the month. I have yet to falter on the 2.5hr average but the CSI has sucked collectively lately. Deduct $2.00 per hour X 600 hours - knock $1200 out of that $5700.

How I effect CSI:
- If I'm rude, don't smile, don't explain what we did to the car, communicate on a regular basis. All of which are within my control.

What effects CSI that I have NO control over:
- car comes back for a repeat concern. The c/e light was on, we "repaired" it, and they're back the next day.
- "car could have been washed better" - Yes, people actually said that on surveys.
- car wash or some other employee damaged the car in some way.
- car wash lost the key.
- call a client and say "the car is ready." They come in 2-3 hours later and they wait 20+ minutes for the car to be brought up because it hasn't been washed yet.
- cashier not paying attention that no one responded when she called for a particular car to be brought up.

So any number of those things, or more, can effect how someone answers the survey. The only passing answers are: EXTREMELY SATISFIED and DEFINITELY RECOMMEND. Answer VERY satisfied or PROBABLY YES to the recommend questions and the score for those questions is 50 out of 100. A word play as to pay us as little and infrequently as possible on CSI. A tech ****s up or a lazy ass cashier doesn't do their share in the "whole experience" and they don't lose a damn cent. They take home their hourly or salary pay no matter what. The only answer management has is: "If you trained the customer on the answers and did an "Active Delivery" (basically kissed ass at the time of pick up), you'd have gotten a perfect score." And they wonder why they have high turn-over rates.

Yeah, I know it's the same with any business but those who have worked for dealerships know what I speak of.

Here is the link to the rest of the thread:

I need out of the car business... Monday morning rant.

I don't usually like to cross-pollinate Sections or repost things, but in this case I thought this Open Discussion is dead on relevant here, and people might have let it slip by and missed this.

A similar thread was posted by an ACTUAL MERCEDES BENZ DEALER SERVICE ADVISOR on Benzworld.com I think in General Mercedes Benz discussion. His name was "Streetglower" I believe, and if anyone is motivated enought, it is in there to read, also, from about 1-2 years ago.

It is a real eye opener into how and why Mercedes Benz dealers have the compensation system set up that makes the Service Advisors do what they do, to you. He did not like it either, as I recall..........

Johnhef · #15 06-15-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyl604

I do not know this car but I know my 81 300SD. The window regulator has a plastic slide which is designed to break, my guess is to protect the regulator from over spec strain. In the SD the slide is riveted in but I have drilled out the rivet and replaced the slide in three of the four windows and never had a problem.

It could be that your newer regulator does not work this way and another post says it is tedious to take off the door panel. However, since you sound like you have mechanical experience, you might want to spend a little time and remove the door panel and give it a look. My recollection is that the regulator is about $300 but I never found the regulator to be bad. Again this is on an ancient 1981 300SD. You may find a combination of plastic pop rivets and plastic retainers (cannot think of the word but they are permanently attached to the panel - you slide the panel and retainers out of the metal door; they snug up the panel to the door frame); make sure you do not break the plastic retainers. Might be called clips.

These are similar but different. while it has the slide piece that breaks on yours, that is not usualy the part of failure on these regulators. The pulley at the ends of the regulator typically cracks and breaks allowing the cable to get tangled up in the motor. Also at some point MB decided to switch to riveting in their window regulators, which have to be drilled out. The door panel is the easy part