Price range for 1991 560SEL - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

braverichard · #31 10-01-2008, 12:04 AM

I can confidently tell you that he isn't selling the car because it needs something; he still drives it daily and it seems to be in great shape. At least by my judgment.

I've been out of the game for a couple of years so correct me if I am wrong, but these cars have chains that last long. The engine has just 87K miles, so isn't it premature at this stage to be expecting the timing chain to have been replaced?

86560SEL · #32 10-01-2008, 12:57 AM

I have been looking for a 300SEL (and about have my mind set on buying one - I will know for sure in two days), but I just ran across a local 1990 560SEL. It looks good, but it has front window issues. Also the owner has no clue as to when the timing chain was last changed and it has 260K!

This would need to be changed ASAP (guides, rails, tensioner, etc). They are asking $2000, but said its negotiable. I was planning on about $600 for new chain/guides/rails... someone said $2K... is it really that much on these cars?

I think a local MB indy quoted me $500 for this when I had my 85' 380SE.

braverichard · #33 10-01-2008, 07:47 AM

Same here, local indy will do it for $500. Don't know where the $2000 figure came from either. I'm assuming the $2000 is meant to cover for other things the car will need.

Jim B. · #34 10-01-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braverichard

I can confidently tell you that he isn't selling the car because it needs something; he still drives it daily and it seems to be in great shape. At least by my judgment.

I've been out of the game for a couple of years so correct me if I am wrong, but these cars have chains that last long. The engine has just 87K miles, so isn't it premature at this stage to be expecting the timing chain to have been replaced?

I wrote this buyers guide for the 560SEC but it applies to this vehicle as well

http://www.mbcoupes.com/buyersguide/buyersguide.htm

Now, this was written in 1998, and there was some assistance by the site owner, but the advice is still basically sound, and applies today.

Except for the price of course. The market today is squishy soft, as gas prices are high, and the cars unapologetically drink a LOT of Persian Perrier

But they are NOT normal cars. With proper care they will last a lifetime.

I purchased mine when it was only a few years from new. I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $38,000 as certified preowned from the Mercedes Benz dealer near Disneyland. It had 50,000 on it, and was mint, perfect and needed nothing. The man who owned the Beverly Hills Hotel had owned it, and he gave me all the records he had on it, back to April 1992

What is notable is that now, it still looks the same at 130,000 miles and runs, looks and drives as new, and still delivers power comfort, safety and prestige.
in the same measure it did when it was new.

These vehicles when new, were sold to multimillionaires, plutocrats, captains of industry, ambassadorial and entertainment figures to whom cost were no object.

And they were built to a cost no object standard, Mercedes Benz gave every one of them their very best Germanic effort.

And they cost! The flagship 560SEL cost over $70,000 when new in the late 80s and early 90s. That was a lot!!!

Whatever you paid for it today won't be anything more than a historical footnote in ten years from today

The best advice is to buy the one in the best condition you can , with a sheaf of records to prove it has been kept up

I have seen MANY used car SEC/SE/SEL owners spend far more in $$$$$$ just trying to catch up on repairs, and actually surpass what would have been spent on the mint condition car they should have bought in the first place

As to mine, over the the years it needed maintenance, but I gave it whatever it needed.

Just now it is in the body shop having the front bumper replaced and the rear one reshot because they had wear and tear consistent with 17 years of daily driving.

This is how it looked a couple of months ago.

Some highlights: Get a prepurchase inspection.

I would replace the timing chain, tensioner and guide rails if I bought the 88 probably Smoke Silver with chocolate
interior, even though the actual mileage is below the recommended 100,000 on it.

Reason? Because the guide rails themselves are 20 years old, and by now are likely OLD, brittle and may have hairline cracks!!! If they are root beer brown and not white it should be time. If they crumble, your chain will slip, usually on the left bank, and there will be havoc - your engine just needs a rebuilt now..... think about it....

For that, you could get an estimate on it, and try and hammer the guy on the price. Id be more concerned with the shape of the body. Is there rust, does it leak after the carwash in the interior and trunk, does it have vacuum locking HVAC and suspension problems?

The 88 has not the issues a car that is undocumented as to past repairs, unlikely to have deferred maintenance issues, by 7th and 8th tier owners that wanted a luxury Benz but could not afford to keep it up.

There is another buyers guide to peruse at www.sec-shop.com a British site.

I wont link the German ones as they are in German.

After you buy, or even before, take a look at the W126 section of the benzworld.com forum.

It is the busiest such site in the world, and as a Moderator of that I can state that it is the truth, the best place for further questions of any type whatsoever on the 560SEL

Hope this helps

braverichard · #35 10-01-2008, 12:44 PM

Thanks for your input. After reading your post earlier this morning I called my trustly old indy and he confirmed your recommendation. He said he wasn't particularly concerned about the chain but was concerned about the guides. He said that costs about $800 - $900 to replace (plus chain). I'll keep that in mind as I continue to look around for a 560SEL.

Hit Man X · #36 10-02-2008, 09:49 PM

They're not a hard DIY job, $2k and you're taking a bath. I can do them in a slow afternoon, as stated the driver side is most prone to failure.

I think we all agree, without full records the car is overpriced.

braverichard · #37 10-02-2008, 11:46 PM

If I purchase the car I'll probably do the chain myself then, as long as the actual labor out of that $800-$900 price tag exceeds $500 (which I'm sure of). The car does have full service records, it's just what it would be needing soon that I'm trying to figure out. I definitely can't blame anyone for not changing the timing chain on their car of such low mileage, my indy said it isn't the chain that would really push him to do such work on the car but the guides which are made of brittle plastic that tends to wear out over time.

braverichard · #38 10-06-2008, 06:58 PM

After giving it some thought, I decided that as much as that '89 car is awesome and needs nothing (just the timing chain work perhaps), the interior color means that to me it isn't a "perfect" car according to my dreams and wishes, so I told the guy that I can't pay more than $5000 for the car. He admitted to me that I am the 3rd potential buyer to walk away due to the interior color but that he's sticking to his asking price because he knows the car, with its excellent maintenance records/history and near perfect condition, is worth it. So as you can all see he has a "my price or no sale" approach towards it which I can understand, I probably would have the same attitude if I were selling that car.

JimFreeh · #39 10-06-2008, 07:46 PM

I've bought many Benzes across the spectrum. Every condition from dragging it home on a trailer to mint with records.

I've had cause to regret many of my low to mid price purchases, rather quickly getting more invested into the car than I could have bought a much nicer example for....

On the other hand, I've yet to regret paying over market/over book for an extremely nice example with a full history and obvious loving care.

My 90 560SEL is such a car, bought from second owner 4.5 years ago, original owner traded it in on a 92 S-class, took trip to Florida immediately, then they returned and tried to get the 560 back. Too bad it was already sold to my friend.

My car was the right color, the right owner and I paid at the top end of the spectrum. Other than the evaporator failing last year, which I repaired myself, I have had to do virtually nothing to this car other than routine maintenance. The records detailed every nickel spent on the car, and it had a PPI at his MB dealer just before I bought it. No problems to report. The car was freshly detailed when I picked it up, engine looked clean enough to eat off it. Black paint looks a foot deep, and very little imperfections.

Was it worth it? Absolutely. Even though it spends most of it's time in the garage, I still feel like I'm driving a new car whenever I drive it, which was around 2k miles this past year.

Is the car worth what I paid for it? Unfortunately, no.

Does it matter? Not really, I have no intention of selling it, and I carry Grundy stated value insurance, so I'm covered if anything happens.

There are still some minty W126s out there, find one well taken care of and treated well like mine in a color you love and you'll never regret it!

Jim

braverichard · #40 10-07-2008, 12:51 PM

Thanks for your response. The seller sent me an email earlier with a counter offer of $7000. Looks like he wants to play ball!!

Jim B. · #41 10-07-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braverichard

Thanks for your input. After reading your post earlier this morning I called my trustly old indy and he confirmed your recommendation. He said he wasn't particularly concerned about the chain but was concerned about the guides. He said that costs about $800 - $900 to replace (plus chain). I'll keep that in mind as I continue to look around for a 560SEL.

If you are going to go in there anyway, I would at least consider the whole thing just to be done with it, and not have to worry about going back later:

Timing chain, tensioners, guide rails, cam oilers and injectors.

braverichard · #42 10-07-2008, 03:45 PM

Injectors? When do they normally wear out on that engine?

Jim B. · #43 10-07-2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braverichard

Injectors? When do they normally wear out on that engine?

It's hard to say when they wear out.

They don't at any set time, and mine were just fine, having been treated to Techron laced Chervron premium 91 octane fuel from the beginning, but out of an abundance of caution, once those valve covers were off the car, and everything was accessible, I was doing the timing chain anyway, I decided to start fresh at 100,000 miles and take care of them and refresh everything.

It ran great BEFORE all of that work, which to me was preventative maintenance, and it runs even better today.

An aggressive maintenace program works very well with these cars, at 130,000 miles I have never had problems, except for what I feel is oil consumption that is a bit too high for the mileage on the car.

It runs perfectly

braverichard · #44 10-12-2008, 08:14 PM

Hey, I might be buying this car. The seller called me again and said he'd be willing to take $6000 for it. I previously offered him $5K which is honestly a bit of a low offer, but hey, I think that if he will take $5500 and submit to a PPI by my indy we can make a deal.

braverichard · #45 10-28-2008, 01:26 PM

Looks like I am rolling forward on this. The guy and his wife reluctantly accepted my $5000 offer. They had no other takers and need the cash.

My indy will be doing a PPI on it tomorrow and if everything comes out as I anticipate, I'll be purchasing the car right away. I will keep you all posted.