No 4Matic - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

RogerP · #1 12-12-2008, 05:28 PM

Now I am confused. Jeff looks like he has a lot of experience with that driveway list so perhaps I won't bother with it after all.

babymog · #2 12-12-2008, 06:48 PM

The 210 is a different system than the 124.
The 124 was designed and built by Steyr-Puch, was electro-hydraulic actuated clutches and gears, the 210 was viscous-locked differentials with traction control.

Although the Steyr-Puch system is technically very cool, it was more complex than it needed to be, IIRC it was a $23,000 option on my '91, and really caused me a lot of white-knuckle moments during electro-hydraulic indecision (which happens regularly by design). Still a really cool system from an Engineer's view. The 210 4matic was a less expensive car in '97(?) when introduced, than my '91.

whipplem104 · #3 12-12-2008, 07:56 PM

I want to be clear about this. I have replaced probably 30-40 transfer cases for customers when I was a dealer technician in Colorado. All of them leaked internally. I drove one myself for 150,000 miles without replacing the case and have had several customers drive more miles on theirs after they were already leaking internally. I have only seen some of the early cases leak so badly that it would not work with some maintenance as I described. There is some risk if driven for a long time with no fluid that the pump is damaged.
I am not saying that other things do not go wrong with this system, but 9 out of 10 or better this is probably it. As they are getting older I have seen the hydraulic damper on the valve block go out causing some problems, but so far this is pretty rare and on 200,000 miles plus cars. Also sometimes the pressure switch in the valve block and stop lamp switch and on one car only have I seen a bad control unit. The t-case is expensive, somewhere around 2500 dollars plus install.
Switching the service valve deactivates the system preventing wear and tear.
The reason the case leaks is that from every stop the clutch activates regardless of traction. At 7-9 km/h it releases if there are no traction issues.
This is because the computer can not read the wheel speed sensors until a higher speed.
If the system is off non of this occurs and the car is effectively two wheel drive.
The 210 has open differentials using the brakes to move power from a slipping wheel to the wheel with traction. With ESP this is a really nice system. It's only limitations are in extreme conditions where a true 4-wheel drive with locked up rear differential and some wheel slip would get you out..
The 210 t-case is prone to leaks also, but can be resealed as they are just external radial seal leaks the same as a differential.

RogerP · #4 12-12-2008, 08:42 PM

One last question then. I am now aware that the TC will need to be swapped out to get the 4Matic working again. Nothing else will work as far as I can see from reading the posts above. So, how difficult is this to achieve? Can it be done with the transmission in place? Any difficulties? Any special tools required? After swapping it is then the case that I wold have to hope none of the electrics are still at fault. The car is cheap but if the swap out is to difficult then it will not be worth the effort. There appears to be plenty of TC's in the UK from scrapped vehicles though of course the question then arises whether they work or not.

I am assuming that it is not the lack of fluid caused by the leak that is the problem but the innability to achieve and maintain the correct pressure to operate the clutch mechanism.

Thanks for all the help it has been more than useful in understanding this.

whipplem104 · #5 12-12-2008, 09:20 PM

It is fairly straight forward to repl. Remove the flex disc and hydraulic lines and then remove the bolts and slide off. It is easier with the exhaust out but not necessary. There is a cross-member behind the case that should be removed to gain room.

brooktre · #6 12-14-2008, 09:46 AM

Michael,
Questions about changing over to hydraulic fluid:
1) Do you use Mobil 1 synthetic?
2) Did you just start adding ATF to the hydraulic reservoir or did you flush out system?

I'm thinking of converting. My 91 300E 4matic has about 203k miles. Original transfer case. It started to leak enough around 150 - 175k that I began to use the disable switch in summers. I actually don't enable unless the snow starts to fly. Still works great with the Nokians!

Todd

michael cole · #7 12-15-2008, 11:27 AM

sorry for the delayed answer.use regular ATF to flush the system initially by adding to the reservoir.then remove with a turkey baster and flush again.put the good synthetic stuff in after flushing 2 times.its cheaper that way

John_B · #8 12-22-2008, 11:39 AM

I have a working t/c out of a 91 4matic with 78,000miles also other misc. parts, ecu, pump and some hydraulic lines. I have 2 4matic, 91 & 92 and they are awsome in the winter and are all original. Let me know if anyone is interested.

silversleeves · #9 03-05-2009, 07:35 PM

Hi John,
I might be interested in your Tranfer case. Could you PM me with the details.
Regards,
Jamie

silversleeves · #10 03-26-2009, 07:14 PM

I am interested in your transfer case...

400Eric · #11 05-11-2016, 10:49 PM

Also, regarding this talk of the "later versions" having a "steel sleeve" in their transfer case, is my January '92 build date 4matic "later" enough to have the steel sleeve equipped transfer case?

duxthe1 · #12 05-12-2016, 01:14 AM

Congrats on the 4-M!

I only use the correct hydraulic fluid in mine.

I've recently procured parts to attempt to engineer a scavenge system to pump the excess fluid out of the case and back into the reservoir. Many projects on the burner now so I may not get around to it until fall comes and threat of snow forces my hand. I'll post progress when I actually make any.

400Eric · #13 05-12-2016, 01:47 AM

Thanks for the response!

You know way more about these 4matics than I do but I have to ask, if you only use the proper fluid and it is constantly leaking into the transfer case, isn't it replacing the transfer case's proper fluid (DexronIII) and isn't that a potential threat to the transfer case's well being?

babymog · #14 05-12-2016, 03:38 PM

Just to add some experience here: My '91 300TE 4matic had the transfer case re-sealed by the dealer twice by the time I sold it in '96, first around 60k miles then again around 110k.

Styre-Puch made an interesting system, but it doesn't work as well as the quattro system of the same era, I many times wished that I had ordered it in RWD to save over $20k for the option and the headaches.

If I had one today and wanted to keep it, I'd figure out how to make it RWD, and keep the locking rear diff with a hydraulic valve to operate it.

400Eric · #15 05-13-2016, 05:11 PM

Guys, this car is dead in the water until I get a majority vote here. I have to choose one of the following two options:

The transfer case fluid is in fact already Dextron III so using D3 in the fluid reservoir obviously isn't going to hurt the transfer case. My question then is what about the rest of the hydraulic system? Will D3 potentially hurt anything else?

Conversely, if I only use the "proper hydraulic fluid" and it is constantly leaking into the transfer case, it is then diluting/replacing the transfer case's proper fluid (DexronIII) and isn't that a potential threat to the transfer case's well being?

Which is the lessor of two evils?

Also, regarding this talk of the "later versions" having a "steel sleeve" in their transfer case, is my January '92 build date 4matic "later" enough to have the steel sleeve equipped transfer case? This might then mean that my leakage problem lies elsewhere.