I was inspired to rant a bit after reading another posters trials and tribulations following a Haynes procedure. I was going to suggest he take that Haynes manual and use it to start his winter woodfires. Those boys have been ripping off the shadetree mechanic crowd for years.
If you have used their books to guide your work on different cars, you'll soon realize that 1/3 of every book is almost the same, with chapters on bodywork and safety etc. just copied over to fill the pages. The other 2/3 is poorly scabbed from official shop manuals, full of important detail errors and lots and lots of missing information.
Take a good look at the diagrams and the few pictures and notice that 90% are of 'typical' mechanical configurations. The few that are accurate are usually copied from the OEM source.
For the outrageous money they charge for these, over $25.00 here plus tax, you can get the worse CD manual out there and still be way ahead. I always get the factory manual for whatever car I buy, paper and CD. The way I figure it, the factory manual is like having a whole team of experts advising you at every step of the job. For the money spent, it's almost always less than 2 hours in the dealer's garage. The Haynes manual is like taking the advice of the knuckle buster ham mechanic down the road.
There, I feel better.....and happy holidays to all

__________________
1986 560SL
2002 Toyota Camry
1993 Lexus

It must be a matter of personal taste as I find the opposite to be true.

Well, they're not as good as the used to be - the 107 manual is actually pretty good (but 28 years old and not updated for newer W107's)...but my Taurus and PT Cruiser manuals were disappointing. They are so damn proud of their COLOR pictures of body work and spark plugs...

__________________
86 560SL
With homebrew first gear start!
85 380SL
Daily Driver Project

http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm

Historically they were the best. My W202 one is OK, but I have to allow for the fact is was not made for the US market. I can tell you that any Haynes manual is better than any Chilton manual! Those are real POS... I think the pros have Mitchell and those seem pretty good.

__________________
1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

I think they are ok as a general reference or to get ideas how to tackle something, but I'd never rely on them exclusively....I've found errors in all of the ones I have....(chevy cavalier, dodge caravan, W123 MB, and Toyota Rav4 ones)....some mistakes are worse than others.....an aftermarket manual will never be as good as one thats put out by the factory....

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

I would agree that aftermarket should never be as accurate as the one put out by the factory - but some of the MB factory CDs have easily qualified as pure crap - difficult to navigate, 2 disks, illogical layouts, poor diagrams, so brief as to be almost negligent.

When they are brief in the factory manual, thats the engineers saying in a german accent: "This is so simple we shouldn't have to outline this procedure for you."

I've had no trouble with the factory manuals on cd.....I loaded them on my server though. I have a computer in the garage so I can just browse them as I please while working, no need to print out anything.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

You know you are in trouble when the parts guy at the dealer can't make any more sense out of the drawing than you can.

__________________
1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

Well it sucks because its an AMERICAN repair manual trying help you fix a EURO car!!!!

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Current Garage
2008 Mercedes GL320 CDI 188k mi Repair/Work in progress
1994 S350 160k mi Garage Queen & prepping for repairs
2005 E320 CDI 203k mi Healthy & Daily Driver
1994 S350 357k mi Retried as parts car
1984 300TD 214k mi Blown OM617 Poss OM603 Swap??

Sold
1987 300SDL 200K+
1994 S320 181K mi
2008 E320 Bluetec 127k mi
1999 S420 130K mi
1980 240D 360k mi
15+ Others that has come, stay and gone

GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
1995 E320 SE 220k mi
1984 300SD 350k mi

I thought Haynes was a British publication?

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1986 560SL
2002 Toyota Camry
1993 Lexus

That's even worse. The Brits are still POed at the Krauts.

I spent a good part of the day following the Haynes' procedure for removing the rear sway bar from a W201. The steps worked fine, except their belief that the bar could be removed without dropping the rear subframe. Nothing like being under a car trying to figure out what angle of attack is going to work until you realize that the book is wrong.

If you get my one of my Indexes, most of the problems with the MB factory CDs will be eliminated.
http://web.mac.com/dakota/Mercedes/Indexes.html

__________________
Steve

1992 300CE Sportline Sophie
1990 300E Emma - in the family
1979 240D Josephine - sold, but not forgotten
2004 Pacifica AWD

http://web.mac.com/dakota/Mercedes/Home.html

I'd be willing to bet that someone has done it - which doesn't make it easy or the best way to do it. I've seen them error in the other direction too - say to remove a part that doesn't really need to be removed.

I have always thought of the Haynes manuals as a good first step. They are something to read over before you move on to a more detailed book.

I think for most people they are OK. They look at them and decide to take it to the shop after reading about what will need to be done.

The only thing I have ever been satisfied with are the Mercedes published manuals.

But then, we are sort of the hard core. How many people, outsided of the types that are on this board, could use more info even if they had it?

Pooka