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  #1  
Old 02-07-2009, 02:04 AM
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Satan's 560SEL

Sometimes you just have to laugh.

A friend of mine with a 1990 560SEL calls me up about a month ago. He says their 110K mile creampuff 560 suddenly lost power, started shaking, and barely made it home from the corner store. I tell him to start with a tune- up as it sounds like maybe it flooded and only runs on a few cylinders.

Fast forward to yesterday- Still same issue, so I tell him to go ahead and tow it up.

Winds up that the engine sounds and seems to run fine, BUT runs like "Whup- Whup- Whup" as the car tries to hop like a Southern California funny car. Further checking shows that reverse works fine, but Neutral wants do do a hopping, lunging reverse, and the forward gears act like there's no trans fluid in the trans, and the car hops forward slowly like it's got a badly bent propeller shaft. In Park, it hops backwards until the parking pawl kicks in, then it does the Jumping Bean trick.

While checking basic settings, I notice that the RPMs aren't changing hardly at all- it REALLY feels like the trans is being quickly and rhythmically shifted between "park" and "reverse".

No vacuum leaks. Brakes are free. Trans fluid level is correct. No leaks. Trans fluid is clean. Drive shaft, rubber discs, joints, and bearings are all good. Propeller shaft and drive axles are dead straight. Shift linkage is adjusted perfectly and bushings are good. The neutral safety/ reverse lamp switch is functional.

It acts like the trans is stuck in reverse... all the time. In Drive, it's a two steps forward, one step back experience. Amazing.

So...

1) Transmission internals are one thing I'm not trained in. And, of course, I have three factory volumes on this chassis and this engine. Guess what they don't cover? Nice.

2) Transmission experts: Is this some common stupid thing that can be fixed? Crap in the valve body? My gut tells me that it's time for a transmission and torque converter transplant. Problem is, you can buy another 560 for less than the cost of doing it right and the shipping on the trans, converter, and cores.

3) I have a buddy with a pretty much junk 1984 380SE. The trans on this car is about the ONLY thing good. Can this be installed in the 560? What are the fitment issues, and what are the downsides to doing this? I know they're two different transmission numbers, but they're the same family.

Ideas? Thanks in advance.
__________________
1968 230S Automatic, Elfenbein
1975 O309D Executive Westfalia Camper Bus, Blau/ Weiss
1972 280SEL 4,5 Dunkelrot
1966 VW Type 34 "Grosser" Karmann-Ghia
1963 VW 1500 Variant Pearlweiss
1969 VW Variant Automatic, Perugruen
1971 VW Squareback Automatic, Clementine Orange
2001 E320 4Matic Wagon- Our belated welcome to the 21st century! Polar White
1973 280SEL 4,5 Sliding Roof "The Bomb", Dunkelblau.
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2009, 12:47 AM
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Posts: 442
WOW. Anybody?

Can anyone at least tell me if the 1984 380SE transmission swap is do- able?
__________________
1968 230S Automatic, Elfenbein
1975 O309D Executive Westfalia Camper Bus, Blau/ Weiss
1972 280SEL 4,5 Dunkelrot
1966 VW Type 34 "Grosser" Karmann-Ghia
1963 VW 1500 Variant Pearlweiss
1969 VW Variant Automatic, Perugruen
1971 VW Squareback Automatic, Clementine Orange
2001 E320 4Matic Wagon- Our belated welcome to the 21st century! Polar White
1973 280SEL 4,5 Sliding Roof "The Bomb", Dunkelblau.
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2009, 12:30 AM
Johnhef's Avatar
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frederick, Md
Posts: 4,540
Dont think so, for one, no cut out in the bellhousing for the crank sensor.
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1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350
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  #4  
Old 02-09-2009, 01:27 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 14,978
Sounds like something bad happened to the trans or torque converter.

How does it cost more than the car? You can get a shop to rebuild a trans for $1000ish.....
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 75k - mine - (OC-77,000)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 6k - wifes (OC-10k)
'01 E320 Wagon - 157k - mine (OC-160,000)
'89 420SEL 166k - mine (OC-167,000)
'01 E320 - 167k - dad's (OC-171,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 129k - dad's (OC-132,500)
'01 SL500 - 48k - dad's (OC-52,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 122k - Brothers (OC-127,000)
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:30 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Northern Va.
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There are two shift linkage bushings that may need to be replaced.
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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2009, 08:18 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 14,978
You've tried putting the gear selector in all positions? Even all the way down to "L" (or 2) ?
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 75k - mine - (OC-77,000)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 6k - wifes (OC-10k)
'01 E320 Wagon - 157k - mine (OC-160,000)
'89 420SEL 166k - mine (OC-167,000)
'01 E320 - 167k - dad's (OC-171,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 129k - dad's (OC-132,500)
'01 SL500 - 48k - dad's (OC-52,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 122k - Brothers (OC-127,000)
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:01 AM
TheDon's Avatar
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Posts: 13,208
run the vins on both cars to get the tranny numbers. If they match swap them, if not look into what you can do with the 380's transmission.

Tram from thesamba..nice
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:10 AM
david s poole
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: dallas
Posts: 1,822
the 380 trans will not swap.sounds to me like the springs and plate[that returns reverse piston to off]may have come apart.i have seen many strange things caused by valve body faults but this is not one of them.pull out trans and remove front pump assembly and you should see problem.
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David S Poole
European Performance
Dallas, TX
4696880422

"Fortune favors the prepared mind"
1987 Mercedes Benz 420SEL
1988 Mercedes Benz 300TE (With new evaporator)
2000 Mercedes Benz C280
http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/A...1159.thumb.jpg
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:04 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 442
Thanks David. That sounds like "it".

TheDon: Hey, Man! What it is?

pawoSD: Yes, I've tried everything. As to your cost analysis: In my area, everything I've hired out- no matter what- I've wound up redoing. Competence is not a strong point in this area. Like I said in my previous posts, auto trans is about the only skill I lack. So, replacement with a rebuilt is about the only option. $2200 (at cost) for reman trans and torque converter, plus freight, plus return freight on cores, plus labor... out here $2500- 3K will buy a NICE 560, because our economy is horrible.

wbain5280: Yes, shift bushings and all external controls are in great shape.

Johnhef: D'oh! Good point!
__________________
1968 230S Automatic, Elfenbein
1975 O309D Executive Westfalia Camper Bus, Blau/ Weiss
1972 280SEL 4,5 Dunkelrot
1966 VW Type 34 "Grosser" Karmann-Ghia
1963 VW 1500 Variant Pearlweiss
1969 VW Variant Automatic, Perugruen
1971 VW Squareback Automatic, Clementine Orange
2001 E320 4Matic Wagon- Our belated welcome to the 21st century! Polar White
1973 280SEL 4,5 Sliding Roof "The Bomb", Dunkelblau.
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:06 PM
Johnhef's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Frederick, Md
Posts: 4,540
Where is "your area"?
__________________


1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:08 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,208
I would just buy a wrecked 560SEL and do a swap.. Its cheap, its fast, and sometimes dirty.. just how we like it.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:37 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 557
why not check the transmission fluid...maybe a couple of quarts of Dexron VI will fix it? Really
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:45 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffmac View Post
why not check the transmission fluid...maybe a couple of quarts of Dexron VI will fix it? Really

First thing I checked.
__________________
1968 230S Automatic, Elfenbein
1975 O309D Executive Westfalia Camper Bus, Blau/ Weiss
1972 280SEL 4,5 Dunkelrot
1966 VW Type 34 "Grosser" Karmann-Ghia
1963 VW 1500 Variant Pearlweiss
1969 VW Variant Automatic, Perugruen
1971 VW Squareback Automatic, Clementine Orange
2001 E320 4Matic Wagon- Our belated welcome to the 21st century! Polar White
1973 280SEL 4,5 Sliding Roof "The Bomb", Dunkelblau.
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 442
OK, so I'm going to learn DB automatic transmissions.

Any pointers on where to get a manual?
__________________
1968 230S Automatic, Elfenbein
1975 O309D Executive Westfalia Camper Bus, Blau/ Weiss
1972 280SEL 4,5 Dunkelrot
1966 VW Type 34 "Grosser" Karmann-Ghia
1963 VW 1500 Variant Pearlweiss
1969 VW Variant Automatic, Perugruen
1971 VW Squareback Automatic, Clementine Orange
2001 E320 4Matic Wagon- Our belated welcome to the 21st century! Polar White
1973 280SEL 4,5 Sliding Roof "The Bomb", Dunkelblau.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-09-2009, 11:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 442
Johnhef: I'm in Springfield, Oregon.
__________________
1968 230S Automatic, Elfenbein
1975 O309D Executive Westfalia Camper Bus, Blau/ Weiss
1972 280SEL 4,5 Dunkelrot
1966 VW Type 34 "Grosser" Karmann-Ghia
1963 VW 1500 Variant Pearlweiss
1969 VW Variant Automatic, Perugruen
1971 VW Squareback Automatic, Clementine Orange
2001 E320 4Matic Wagon- Our belated welcome to the 21st century! Polar White
1973 280SEL 4,5 Sliding Roof "The Bomb", Dunkelblau.
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