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  #1  
Old 02-24-2009, 08:37 PM
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RIP 1988 300E

Well, my Mercedes experiment is over.

I have a legit question for the enthusiasts here: Are Mercedes typically fairly reliable cars? The 300E I bought was checked out by a local MB specialist, and they gave it more or less a "clean bill of health." They did point out it had a head gasket leak, which I understand is fairly common with the 103 engines. Other than that, they felt it was solid and would likely give me overall good service. Oddly enough, in the less-than-one year I owned my E, the head gasket was the one thing that never gave me any problems.

In my 10 months of ownership:

Had to replace the alternator

Had to replace the front struts and strut mounts

Had to replace the radiator

Had to replace the water pump

Had to have some heater work done on it (something about a 'mono-valve?')

Had to have three of the four windows fixed (unfortunately, two of them required the regulator/motor--only one of them was a relatively cheap switch)

Had to have the a/c/heater control panel thing replaced

That thing also had more strange sounds than any car I've ever owned, and I've owned plenty of 15-25 year old autos (mostly Japanese). The blower made some wierd chirping sound, particularly when cold... there was a faint fluttering sound at the top (defrost) vent that came on intermittently. The fuel pump(s?) at the rear of the car sounded like a small engine running constantly; if the radio was off, it was annoyingly loud.

The middle vents (above the radio) quit blowing air altogether about 2 months into ownership. The rear defogger worked less and less well as time went by. There was some wierd chirping sound coming from the rear of the car by the time I unloaded it. Antenna wouldn't go up and down. Odomoter quit working. Cruise control quit working. Recently started stalling out right after I'd first crank it. The windshield wiper started going slower and slower, particularly when cold. The transmission always felt wierd to me (not smooth as I'm used to) but they said it checked out fine... however, recently, it seemed like it always took a little longer for it to engage when you moved it from P to D or R, like 2-3 seconds or so before it'd "catch." On and on and on.

Do you think mine was just a lemon? Or is it fairly common, this type of stuff? A lady I work with who has an '82 Diesel raved about her Benz, somewhat influenced me to start looking at Mercedes. But even though she pointed out she had 400k on the car (which is, I admit, quite a feat!), I later learned she was on her second engine, making that 400k seem a little less impressive (I sold an '89 Corolla to a friend w/280k on the original engine and clutch; he recently replaced the clutch at 305k, engine still strong). I also started noticing she had hers in at the shop about half as much as I had mine in! Granted, most of her repairs weren't as costly as mine, but not like she drives it 12-18 months without having any issues. Are they just relatively high-maintenance cars that are good for a lot of miles--but with the caveat you have to invest a lot along the way?

My $275 payment and full-coverage insurance on my new car will work out to be cheaper over the course of this next year than I spent on repairs on this thing in 10 months.

Not meaning to flame, I went into this with the best of hopes and intentions. I'm very disappointed in my Mercedes experience. I have to have a reliable car, and I've just found Japanese cars to be the best in that particular category.

But genuinely curious about the experience of those here...


Last edited by Colo Springs E; 02-24-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2009, 09:10 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Evansille, Indiana
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I can only tell you about my experience. When I bought my first used Mercedes, over 5 years ago, I was advised (on this forum) to make sure the car had maintenance records and was well maintained. I also called various independent shops and dealers and I was told to expect to pay between $1,000 and $1,500 per year to maintain one of these cars if driven regularly. I have followed that advise on the three that I own and have found the maintenance estimates to be more or less on the money. My diesel has been very reliable, but it has had a few big-ticket items (evaporator core) as well. My 560sec, while not the most beautiful cosmetically, was owned by my independent mechanic, and he was a stickler for mechanical quality, and it shows. The car runs great, but has needed a few things. As a 21 year old car, I would expect it to.
Your '88 is also getting up on 21 years of age, and things do wear out. You don't say what your mileage is, but some items wear with distance and some with time. Your issues with airflow tend to be the vacuum actuated pods failing after many years of use. This wouldn't surprise me. I replaced all of them on the diesel when I did the evaporator core.
These are wonderfully engineered cars and for me are a joy to drive. I do not get any personal satisfaction driving a Japanese car - even the best just don't "feel" right to me. But that engineering requires maintenance - as you have probably noticed most of us on this forum do some degree of maintenance ourselves. We appreciate the engineering and design of the vehicles and most feel that it's part of the ownership experience. While not a mechanic, I do what I can, and actively participate in all the repairs in some way or another.
Your rash of issues seems to be a bit higher than I would expect, without any knowledge of how the car was maintained prior to your purchase, I would suspect that maintenance was a bit lacking.
Can you give us more info?
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2009, 09:25 PM
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Happy with Mercedes
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Smile There's always a risk

My 1991 300E was purchased from a used car dealer in Long Island. The dealer had no clue what the history of the car was. For a reasonable fee ($2,700) I purchased the car. It has served my daughter well. It was an absolute crap shoot. And it has served her well, needing only a new exhaust system and an electric short addressed, by bypassing it.

I feel your pain, and ask that you look for a replacement. One thing with Mercedes, is that they are "fixable". You may have rolled teh dice, and they came up bad; try again they will come up better.

My daughter has clearly enjoyed the 300E, over the 1999 Chevy Cavalier (ten years newer) she drove before.

Good luck.

BTW - I sold my 1993 500SEL with 220,000 miles for a better replacement, 1995 420E with 190,000 miles - it's all perspective.

Good Luck.

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Thanks for the help
Bill Fisher

'86 560SL (186K) - Now a 'classic' : Registered as an Historic Vehicle
02 E430 in the stable
'14 LS460 (Lexus)
- - - - -
'95 E420 (198K) found a new home
'99 E320 (80K) (gave it's life for me as we hit a bumper)
'95 E420 (231K) Sold to a happy buyer, new to Mercedes
'90 300E (65K) Sold to an Mercedes Lover
'92 190E (215K) - retired to the salvage yard
'93 500SEL (214K) - Moved to another family, still runs like a young pup
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2009, 09:27 PM
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Your experience is unusual, but not unheard of. Similar to the experience that my Father had with his Lexus from new and my Wife's Jetta from new. Oddly enough, that Jetta was sold after 7years of constant care and maintenance, and was never any trouble to the next owner.

Every carmaker creates a troublemaker or two, that is fact. That yours was a troublemaker at 22years old is indicative most likely of years of ignoring many small problems and maintenance items that later became big problems. It happens.

I've had 5 124 models in the past 18years, from new to 250,000miles. Although I've been disappointed that anything failed over time, the '87 300D that I sold this winter was much more reliable and tight to drive than most any cars I've owned. I did replace and maintain things, but had few problems, mostly maintenance items. From my experience I say that your experience was not normal.

What has been said many times tends to hold true: The most expensive Mercedes that you can buy, is the cheap one.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2009, 10:07 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys.

The miles weren't bad, just under 125k. The guy I bought it from was the 3rd (I think?) owner, and had had it about 6 years. There were no records available, and that does indeed make it a bit of a crapshoot. Maybe there was not regular maintenance done on it, difficult to know.

I like the "most expensive Mercedes" quote... that did indeed hold true for me. I paid a pretty decent price ($2000 cash), but ended up putting more than that into the car in about 10 months. In hindsight, I might've done better buying one from the shop where I had service done (they come with 6 month warranties, and are typically cars that they have serviced themselves). They had an early/mid 90s 400E for $5500 but only had about 80k and came with that 6-month warranty and looked nearly new, it was really nice. Maybe I should have gone with that one. Trying to save some bucks probably ended up costing me in the end.

My 300 drove really nice at highway speeds (70+ mph). To be honest, it didn't do much for me tooling around town, as it felt a bit bulky to me (keep in mind, I've typically driven smaller/nimbler cars). But man, on the open road, I must admit, it sure drove nice.

Wish my experience would've been more positive. I just had no confidence in the car at this point and had to let it go--I've got to have reliability out of a car; it's the single most important fact to me, moreso than looks or "vibe." The Benz had both of those, but I just couldn't feel confident in getting from A to B--particularly if B was more than a few miles away.

Unfortunately, I'm not very mechanically inclined, so I was dependent on my local shop. And I got to know them waaaaay too well LOL.

Oh well, I guess you just have to stick with what works for you sometimes. I was stationed as a young soldier in Deutschland (82-84) and always wanted a Benz. Getting an older one was really my only option due to price. Rolled the dice and crapped out, stuff happens.

Thanks for the replies and may you all have many happy miles with your Mercedes...
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2009, 11:37 PM
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Location: Willow Glen
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I paid $11k for our first 300E, a '91 in '97 primarily for a sense of safety for my new family after driving an econobox Honda. After an $1100 90k service I realized I could only afford to do the maintenance myself. If you have to rely on a dealer then these cars maintenance and repairs will no doubt be costly. The '91 now has 150k and so far I only had to replace the water pump, belts, tensioner, and smog pump.

Maybe the extreme hot and cold CO weather attributed to the cooling and climate control failures. My parents blew a head gasket in 100+ degree Las Vegas heat. You probably didn't need to replace the alternator unless the bearings failed (uncommon). A $30 regulator can be replaced in 5 minutes. $2k for an '88 with 125k isn't bad. Over $2k for all the parts you replaced is reasonable.

Buying an old car is always a risk because of the unknowns. I wouldn't recommend any used car if you require absolute reliability and can't maintain the car yourself unless the car was completely refurbished. If it were, it would cost more than a new car...
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'94 E320 Cabriolet, 110k, black, stock, SOLD
'88 300TE, 229k, dark grey, SOLD
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2009, 02:10 AM
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In five years and some with my 1990, I had to do the headgasket, waterpump and delete the reasonator (somehow got a hole in it.) Everything else was basic maintenance, stuff you'd do to a new car anyway.

Now lotsa small things are going wrong, mostly electrical, mostly mod con stuff. Car still goes. Windows just arent going up and down as readily as they used to, fan doesnt blow etc. But i've run the car hard the last five years, so i'm content with it's foibles.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2009, 09:41 AM
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Read through this thread: Lost and Confused with a 93 300D 2.5 and you will see a similar tale of woe (diesel 124). You will also see that much of his proposed expense is the shop "mining the customer" for service he likely doesn't need, services that are double-dipped, and replacing parts that might simply need lubrication or adjustment.

Unfortunately, there are shops like this out there which prey on people who's story is that they want to make the car right. You'll find it with Honda as well as Mercedes, it makes a car that needs a little more than the average car impractical to own.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2009, 10:14 AM
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Sorry it didn't work out for you. At only 125K on the odo, I have to believe that its previous owners were pretty abusive to the poor thing. I've owned my 1988 W124 since new, so I know that it was treated right every day of its life. And it's rewarded me with outstanding service, never marooned me alongside the highway, given me a sure-footed, smooth and stable ride. To this day, I still look forward to getting into it and going somewhere, anywhere! The 103 engine is a true delight, even with its head gasket reputation, and runs silky smooth most of the time, after which I know that it's time for new plugs or rotor, or other routine maintenance needs.

My wife's car is a 1990 Maxima, also owned and pampered from new, with nearly 140K on the clock. It, too, has been a real gem. Its transverse 3.0L V6 is about as reliable a motor as exists on this planet. It's fun to drive (they don't call it a 4-Door Sports Car for nothing) in a way that the Merc isn't, but there's never any question which car to take when it comes time to make a longer trip. The Merc wins every time, even with 50,000 more miles.

So there's one family's comparative test between German and Japanese cars: they can both be wonderful and give decades of good, reliable service when properly cared for, but the Mercedes is the one that we take when all-around driving pleasure and comfort are required.
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Past Mercedes-Benz:
1986 190E Baby Benz
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2009, 10:24 AM
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Sounds more like age than abuse to me...

All of the aforementioned parts you've replaced or symptomatic noises you've experienced are typical of this model...it's atypical that all of them would have happened to one vehicle.

At 125K, I would expect the evaporator, radiator and alternator to require replacement. Surprised that the head gasket didn't become an issue considering your luck.

But you've gotten rid of the car, so no more worries. Too bad you spent so much on it, only to have to part ways...
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2009, 11:51 AM
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To spend $2000 on a 21 year old car, with the expectation of it being cheap to run and reliable is a fool's errand. To do this and NOT be mechanically inclined, only increases the odds of disapointment.

I don't care if what model or country it's from, at this age and price point, your odds of a good car are very poor. Sure, it can happen, but odds are you end up with a money pit. If it's such a great car, why is the owner dumping it?

To lesson your odds, you first need to be mechanically inclined, not only in order to minimize the upkeep cost, but to be able recognize the good car from the bad car. Secondly, you have to WANT to keep the car maintained, and with some sweat equity, the cost to maintain it is often less than the depreciation and interest on a new car.

You've made a prudent decision. Old Mercedes are not for everybody, some people are more comfortable with a fixed monthly outgo, with risk mitigation.

Jim
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2009, 12:12 PM
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Our 300E has needed some repairs, but if you do the work yourself....its not a big deal. Maintaining an old MB through a shop is a pricey proposition...and it shouldn't be expected to be cheap.

What you had happen with you car isn't that common...the car was abused.

Our 300E has 136k on it and runs very quiet and smooth, and the interior/exterior are in excellent shape.

Its all how it was treated.
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2009, 12:56 PM
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Sounds pretty normal for a Mercedes of that age. A lot of little things that can be repaired individually, by the interested and capable hobbyist; will drive the typical motorist crazy and bankrupt if you are having it done in a shop. Nothing I read here says "lemon", just a higher-level European car 20 years old. I have fixed most of these or similar items on my '86 S-klasse: previous owner was a non-technical (i.e. typical) owner who parked it in the garage. I took it home on a flatbed and fixed it. Most cheap cars are tossed away before they get this far and there is not much wrong with them except they are not wanted anymore.
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
Sounds pretty normal for a Mercedes of that age. A lot of little things that can be repaired individually, by the interested and capable hobbyist; will drive the typical motorist crazy and bankrupt if you are having it done in a shop. Nothing I read here says "lemon", just a higher-level European car 20 years old. I have fixed most of these or similar items on my '86 S-klasse: previous owner was a non-technical (i.e. typical) owner who parked it in the garage. I took it home on a flatbed and fixed it. Most cheap cars are tossed away before they get this far and there is not much wrong with them except they are not wanted anymore.
Exactly.

Stuff like taking it to the shop to have the windows repaired and stuff....thats just a guaranteed wallet torching! You have to work on these yourself to keep them going reasonably. I will occasionally take mine in if it needs something I cannot do. (suspension stuff....steering....ect...)....but I try to do all else myself. This weekend our 300E gets a new belt and pulley. ...and a couple exhaust hangers fixed.
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'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2009, 04:32 PM
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All good posts, I appreciate the civil tone of this thread--I know lots of MB owners and most are very passionate about their love for these cars, so i sure didn't want to come across as "Toyota rocks, MB sucks!" LOL I really wanted mine to work for me, but it is absolutely true I have virtually no mechanical abilities (inclination or desire or time) and thus, a 20-year old Benz was probably not a wise choice, as has been pointed out here.

I sure got some nice compliments on it as I drove it around town, I really liked that aspect of owning it. It was different, not everybody had one of these. The color of mine was sort of cool too (teal green w/tan leather) so it was a little different from that aspect as well.

Oh well, it was still fun, and believe it or not, with the trade-in they gave me at the dealership, I didn't get hurt too bad. (Some of them are pretty motivated it seems to move new cars) Wish I hadn't just recently sunk a few hundred in it, but not the end of the world.

Take care... -Eric

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