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  #1  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:27 PM
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Question EFI vs CIS

Why, on the early 116 M117 engines did they use EFI injection systems, then later switched to the CIS? I thought EFI was a step FORWARD in fuel injection??
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:34 PM
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Sometimes you figure out something that works better, but don't have enough bugs worked out to take it to market.
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:36 PM
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yeah, Lost of things to go wrong on and EFI engine, I like the CIS, it's much more understandable and ready for turbo!
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:46 PM
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The interesting thing is that all the european manuafacturers seemed to abandon djet at the same time. It does seem that kjet was a step back. My 73 450 SE had quite a bit more poke then my 80 450 SEL. Much bigger difference then the extra weight of the SEL could account for.
Was Djet just too expensive? Was it not up to the emerging emmission testing?
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:03 AM
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It's more likely that the number and quality/cost of the many components were questionable. Germans don't give up without reason the Emission numbers were also probably more consistant with the K-Jet, than D-Jet But I'm just speculating. I much prefer the K-Jet system. and the air cleaners look better
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerSD View Post
It's more likely that the number and quality/cost of the many components were questionable. Germans don't give up without reason the Emission numbers were also probably more consistant with the K-Jet, than D-Jet But I'm just speculating. I much prefer the K-Jet system. and the air cleaners look better
I think you may be on the right track there...


From what I am reading about D-Jet vs CIS, you sound like your on the right track....
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:16 AM
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Early EFI systems were plagued with problems. MB even recalled all of the 1971-74 cars to replace fuel hoses. MANY MB's caught fire & burned, over 500 totaled.

Trigger points & the MAP sensor were terrible. So was the actual computer.
Plus the system wasn't sequential, so emissions were higher.

CIS was more stable, although not as smooth at idle.
CIS can't make emission requirements of todays systems.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:32 AM
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The original move to the L-Jetronic system was for the power, efficiency, etc. that it offered and several manufacturers moved to it.

However, failure of the system left the car dead, and for that reason primarily some European manufacturers with reputations of durability and dependability including Volvo and Mercedes-Benz returned to the K-Jetronic / CIS system as it could have failures and still have a "limp-home" mode. The KE-Jetronic / CIS-E helped to make the CIS cleaner and more efficient until a more reliable electronic system was developed.
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:18 PM
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Volvo went from Djet, Ljet, Kjet (80-82) and then immediately dumped Kjet in favor of LH 1.0-3.1 from 83-93. By 89 they were using knock sensors with 10:1 CR on 87 gas. Those systems were perfectly reliable. I don't know why mercedes stuck with Kjet for 15 years right up to Motronic.
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
I don't know why mercedes stuck with Kjet for 15 years right up to Motronic.
Because it worked!
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:07 PM
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EFI is simply a generic term for fuel injection and does not describe a particular system.

The earliest Bosch systems were D-Jetronic followed pretty much simultaneously by K-Jetronic (CIS) and L-Jetronic.

The advantage seen at the time by Mercedes in using K-Jetronic is that the car will still run following failure of system electronic components.

Nevertheless, L-Jetronic is the survivor, and nothing is fitted with anything else these days.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:19 PM
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Early EFI units by various brand suffered from limited/poor electronics, however as technology rapidly improved, so did the system control and the ability to monitor and adjust the system to many more engine and environmental situations.

As a result, for those pre mid-90's Mercedes owners that are willing to convert their CIS systems to EFI, there's a whole lot of HP and fuel economy waiting to be tapped.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:40 PM
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The knock sensors in the early cars altered ignition timing, not the fuel mixture.

In the early EFI systems, which ran the gamut from the VW squareback and '70s 264 et al Volvos, were prone to complete (walk-home) failures. The progression was then to the mechanical CIS/K-Jetronic for its reliability.

These days it is common to run a car 150,000miles or more with only the MAS cleaning and O2 Sensor replacement in the fuel system, some more. It's come a long way since Bosch Motronic etc.

I still like the mechanical injected diesels too, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Volvo went from Djet, Ljet, Kjet (80-82) and then immediately dumped Kjet in favor of LH 1.0-3.1 from 83-93. By 89 they were using knock sensors with 10:1 CR on 87 gas. Those systems were perfectly reliable. I don't know why mercedes stuck with Kjet for 15 years right up to Motronic.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2009, 06:04 PM
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I prefer the way CIS drives when it's working properly... there's no waiting around for the computer to figure out what you want to do and if it might make a few too emissions. Though the CIS cars I'm used to driving are all lill 4 cyl VWs CIS drives way better then Motronic or even Didifart... errr I mean Digifant (VW's interpretation of Motronic in the late 80s). Same with the good ole mechanical injected diesels... though EDC is quite responsive it's not quite as good as yee olde springs and levers.

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  #15  
Old 10-12-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Because it worked!
So did LH and Motronic with better fuel economy, lower emissions and more power. Mercedes was being lazy with its 90s Kjet cars. The late CIS cars with both electronic and mechanical injection components are diabolical to diagnose and maintain. All EFI cars have 1 fuel pump and 1 pressure regulator. Thats the extent of the mechanical side. The electronic components either work or they don't work. They are not subject to mechanical wear and adjustment. Fuel injectors, sensors, FPRs and pumps are all standardized and interchangeable with cars from a dozen different manufacturers that also used Bosch as a supplier. I've seen plenty of nice Benzes go to the JY in California because they failed emissions and from a Kjet fault. People generally prefer what they're familiar with but selling cars in 1993 with mechanical fuel injection is pathetic. Bosch EFI technology had gone through many generations and was very mature by the mid 80s. The 16 valve 190e could have been a truly great car with EFI, on par with the E30 M3. There is no excuse.

Last edited by tjts1; 10-12-2009 at 07:25 PM.
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