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  #16  
Old 11-20-2001, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 126
F.J.Lahme

I am going to buy the fuel injectors and fuel pressure regulator today and I will check the fuel distributor.

I do have an idle problem , intermittent shaking at a traffic light also.

Exhaust seems to be working just fine as far as I can tell so far, but I will give it a closer inspection, as soon as I get this fuel issue resolved.
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2001, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 298
Replace the Fuel pressure regulator and see if you still get black smoke first.

I vaguely recall there is a way to measure O2 sensor with a multimeter, normal O2 sensor has 3 pins, one is common ground, one is the heater power: once you start the car, it heats the O2 sensor to let it reach functional temperature faster, the last one is the O2 volume indicator.

You can let the car run 10 minutes or so to let O2 sensor warm up, then probe the voltage from the O2 volume indicator between the common ground, can't recall what exactly the voltage should be, maybe something around 800 mV.

Actually for the fuel pressure regulator, you can also measure it first, I am pretty sure there is place in the fuel rail where you can attach a cheap fuel pressure gauge and measure the fuel pressure, but since fuel pressure regulator is cheap, you can just go ahead to replace it.

Keep us informed.
__________________
99 BMW 540i 6-speed 110K Km
03 SAAB 9-5 wagon 80K Km
92 400E (Sold) 245K km
Still missing the days with the Benz, it kept me busy.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2001, 01:27 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 126
carman850

Thank you very much for that info.

I will get a compression test done, check the 02 sensor as you have described, do a fuel pressure test and post my results.

One other thing....The part number I was given for the fuel pressure regulator is 000 078 03 92 and it is very expensive.
Would you please verify that I have the right part number and possibly tell me the price you have found , since you said that it was cheap and to go ahead and replace it.

Thank you in advance.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2001, 01:33 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA/ Hilo, HI
Posts: 92
philipminion

Sinceyou do have an idle problem,
I'm quite certain the culprit is the O2 sensor and the fuel pressure regulator.
Good advice from carman850, problem is on the KE Jetronic injection of the 190E you don't have a fuel rail to attach a measuring device to. You'll have to check if the regulator is producing a vacuum on the little black rubber hose that comes out in the front.
I had the same problem on the 88 300E, which has about the same injection setup. Turned out to be injectors, fuel pressure regulator and the O2 sensor. As long as you don't have a hard start issue, the regulator might not be involved though.
As far as I can remember the fuel pressure regulator is not too cheap, runs about $160 or 180 the last time I bought one. Expect the O2 sensor the cost about $130. These prices are for OEM quality german made products from either fastlane or megaparts.com. I wouldnt put anything less on my cars.
For now you can try to adjust the fuel/air mixture with a 3mm T-wrench. There's a hole in the center of the airfilter in which to insert it. Press the wrench down slightly until it catches and then turn slowly and release the pressure to see what the effect is. Right is richer, left is leaner.
You might have to take the air filter off and drill a little metal ball out of the neck that houses the adjustment screw to get to it. ONce the ball is out there's a little metal plate in there. You can just take that out. Its not attached to the surrounding metal.
Dont turn the screw too much though or the computer wont register the cange or screw up the setting even worse. Just a tiny bit at a time. A hair-turn can make a big difference.
You can also get a smell of your exhaust. Rotten eggs is too rich.
A car on the rich side runs a tad more powerfull, but will screw up emission control equipment like cat and O2 sensor. Expensive 5min of more fun.
To cheaply test the O2 sensor my ex-boss (now independent MBZ mechanic in HIlo, HI, MB tech since the 60's, trained in Germany, worked for MBZ of Hollywood) tells me to disconnect the O2 sensor cable and see if the idle changes. No changes, ergo O2 sensor bad. I'm not so sure about that, but you can try it.
Best of luck!
F.J.

P.S.
If you need more specific directions, I'll mail you a picture.
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F.J.
81 300 SD grey/palomino 168K miles
84 190E 2.3 black/grey 64K miles (wrecked)
85 190E 2.3 maroon/palomino 92K miles
88 300E desert red/palomino 204k miles
(made to look like a '94-95)
92 400E desert taupe/creme beige 120K miles
(converted to 94-95 E420 looks)
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2001, 01:45 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA/ Hilo, HI
Posts: 92
philipminion

in case you are interested I have the kind of fuel pressure regulator you are looking for. Its a Bosch, part number 0438 161 001, used, but I have only been using it for testing purposes on three cars and according to fastlane, it will fit your car. Its practically brand new, only that is show some wear, where the wrenches go. Im parting out all my parts and such as I will move back to the mainland early next year.
You can make me an offer on the part if you are interested.
F.J.
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F.J.
81 300 SD grey/palomino 168K miles
84 190E 2.3 black/grey 64K miles (wrecked)
85 190E 2.3 maroon/palomino 92K miles
88 300E desert red/palomino 204k miles
(made to look like a '94-95)
92 400E desert taupe/creme beige 120K miles
(converted to 94-95 E420 looks)

Last edited by F.J.Lahme; 11-20-2001 at 01:53 PM.
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2001, 03:14 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 298
Sorry, didn't know Fuel pressure regulator for 190E costs that much.

The one on my 400E costs only 40 USD, and it took me 5 minutes to replace.
__________________
99 BMW 540i 6-speed 110K Km
03 SAAB 9-5 wagon 80K Km
92 400E (Sold) 245K km
Still missing the days with the Benz, it kept me busy.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2001, 03:31 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA/ Hilo, HI
Posts: 92
Hi carman850

what made you replace the fuel pressure regulator on the 400E?
I mean in regards to symptoms.
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F.J.
81 300 SD grey/palomino 168K miles
84 190E 2.3 black/grey 64K miles (wrecked)
85 190E 2.3 maroon/palomino 92K miles
88 300E desert red/palomino 204k miles
(made to look like a '94-95)
92 400E desert taupe/creme beige 120K miles
(converted to 94-95 E420 looks)
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2001, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 298
I bought this 400E several months ago, I replaced a bunch of parts as preventive maintenance: (distributor caps &rotors, spark plugs, fuel pressure regulator, engine oil filter, air filters, transmission fluid and filter), I didn't replace O2 sensors and Cat, they looked like new, I guess previous own must have already replaced them.

It did shake and idle roughly, now it's smooth like silk.

I replaced fuel pressure regulator and O2 sensors (it has 3 of them!!) on my other car: Ford explorer, before I replaced them, it blew black smoke and I got 10 mpg, now I get 16 mpg.
__________________
99 BMW 540i 6-speed 110K Km
03 SAAB 9-5 wagon 80K Km
92 400E (Sold) 245K km
Still missing the days with the Benz, it kept me busy.
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2001, 05:37 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 126
This is what happened...The results...

uggghhhhh....I just finished typing my post and it said I wasn't logged on, but I know for sure that I was, and I lost all my text and have to do it all over again .

Just a reminder my car is a 1988 190e 2.3 8v

From the beginning....I took off the air filter assembly to expose the fuel system. I cleaned the entire area with a cleaner from Liqui Moly's Professional Line called " Intake System Purge" and noticed some oil around some of those shaped hoses and so I took the spacing element out from between the hoses and cleaned it well, since it was very dirty/blocked (oil). Afterwards, I took out and cleaned the fuel pressure regulator, cold start valve, and the throttle valve housing, inside and out. Next, I removed the injectors and cleaned all around there and installed new Bosch injectors and seals.

Now it was time to do a fuel sytem pressure test. I used the one made by MAC. First, I checked the fuel pump relay with this equipment and it is working just fine. Next, I did the pressure test and the gauge read 84 psi. I did the test 3 times to be sure.
Haynes manual says it should be 76.8 - 79.7 psi. Bottom line is that there was a lot of pressure. Whew, what a relief, saved me from buying that costly fuel pressure regulator.

Moving along, it was time for a compression test. Here are the results:

Test done without oil
Cyl. 1 150 psi
Cyl. 2 165 psi
Cyl. 3 165 psi
Cyl. 4 165 psi

Test done with oil
Cyl. 1 200 psi
Cyl. 2 200 psi ( maybe 198 psi )
Cyl. 3 200 psi
Cyl. 4 200 psi

Haynes says:
Compression pressure should be 145 - 174 psi
Minimum acceptable compression pressure 123 psi
Maximum compression difference between cylinders 21 psi

I did both tests because I was told that there is a way to diagnose an engine by doing this. My concern comes from the fact that I have noise coming from the engine that sounds like lifters or valves. I'm not sure and I'm hoping one of you guys may have an idea about this .....I changed the spark plugs too. The electrodes were quite black, probably carbon deposits.

Last but not least for the day, after noticing that there was oil in the throttle valve housing which lead into the air filter body and the filter itself, I took out the filter and cleaned the entire air filter body and related parts and reinstalled without the air filter. Instead, I put a K&N air filter. Here is a pic...

I know I said that I check the 02 sensor, but I ran out of time...that's next.

Oh yeah, I adjusted the idle too. The car is much smoother now, idles better, more throttle response...overall a good day
Attached Thumbnails
My First Post....Fuel Consumption Question-190c.gif  

Last edited by philipminion; 11-21-2001 at 06:36 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-23-2001, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 126
Post 2 Days Later

Well...it has been 2 days and I can say that my mileage has increased for sure. I will post figures once I go through a complete tank.

The engine is much smoother, and there is no hesitation.

I'm not sure about the air filter setup, it may not be breathing properly, but I'll give it a few more days to be sure. If it doesn't change then I'll go back to the normal style filter to see if that makes a difference.

I put a valve cleaner in this morning Luqui Moly's Ventil Sauber (valve clean) which made a difference right away.
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  #26  
Old 11-26-2001, 06:56 PM
hamish
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Posts: n/a
My 230te can go as low as 18mpg doing the school run,1 mile there and 1 mile home but does 33mpg on a long run at 75mph so the tank range varies hugely and it shows how mpg varies bepending on the type of usage the car has!!
So don't worry so long as it stays consistently bad!
Hamish
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  #27  
Old 11-26-2001, 09:55 PM
bg99ers
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Posts: n/a
MAJOR WORK AHEAD.

HELLO ALL.
I have the same fuel consumption problem as experienced by philipminion. I want to see if I can get some help from the experts.
Some mornings I have rough starts. The car shakes and vibrates like a massager well it feels good to have a massager but not if the whole car is one I also have the same vibration during stops i.e. at a red light. When I cold start the car in the morning, I can smell the rotten egg smell, but it goes away. I also feel as if I have lost power or the transmission is giving out (not shifting properly, very sluggish). I have to do some major work to this car to make it run like new again. Please Help me out here!!!
Thanks
By the way its a 85 190E 2.3 8V
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2001, 12:24 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 126
Talking Great Results !

Well the results are in. I got 260 miles the first tank. I'm up 60 miles. I'm really glad I cleaned the fuel system inside out and changed those injectors. I believe that made the difference. Something must have.

I'd like to thank all of you guys for your support and advice that you've given me to help achieve these positive results. This forum is really something great and makes owning a benz a delight.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2001, 01:08 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 298
Congratulation!!

I know the feeling of improving mpg by 30%, also the release from feeling guilty
__________________
99 BMW 540i 6-speed 110K Km
03 SAAB 9-5 wagon 80K Km
92 400E (Sold) 245K km
Still missing the days with the Benz, it kept me busy.
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