M-103: too many issues for the title... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gsxr · #16 12-30-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

Guys, I really need a quicker fix to this battery drain issue. Before I have to resort to GSXR's methods (which I really don't have time for right now), are there any known trouble areas/weak links where I should look first? Thanks again.

Eric, if you would spend the 10 minutes needed to locate the drain, you'd already know what needs to be fixed. I don't know of any common problems on the 300E that would cause a battery drain. It's really not as time consuming as you think - trust me!

About the car being a member of the family, and not being able to put it down... two words: Old Yeller.

400Eric · #17 12-30-2009, 11:52 PM

That's my point! Who here didn't shed a tear when they put Old Yeller down? I don't want to see that happen again! It was bad enough the first time. Now I'm supposed to do that to Benzer 1 too? It's not like B-1 has a hopeless fatal disease that he's gonna die from and it's not like he or his disease poses a risk to the other members of the family. And we have AAA AND our own tow truck too!

You weren't there that day when we spanked that Lexus GS. Up until that day Benzer 1 was just another car to me. A commodity to be bought and sold like so many others I have done through the years. But that day my attitude toward B-1 changed. That wasn't just a race, it was an all out top speed brawl. This is a bond forged in battle. I love this car like I love my dog. (That's a serious kind of love!)

I'll get back to work on B-1 when it quits raining. Still open to other ideas too!

Edit: Dave, I've sent you a PM about some diesel info that may be of interest to you.
Regards, Eric

400Eric · #18 12-31-2009, 11:49 PM

Can't find my amp meter. Haven't seen it since we moved. I'm gonna go out later and use the "spark method" in the dark. Works better that way.
Regards, Eric

gsxr · #19 01-01-2010, 11:11 AM

While I was mostly joking about the "spark" method... be very careful if you attempt this, as a spark near the battery can ignite hydrogen gasses from the battery vent. Wear eye protection and have water nearby, in case of an explosion (need to wash off the HCL acid ASAP). I know it's not likely, but you should be prepared just in case!

400Eric · #20 01-02-2010, 12:44 AM

Sorry it took me a while to report back....I had to wash the battery acid out of my eyes. Now you tell me!

(Just kidding). Some of the problem was traced to fuse "C", but most of the problem was traced to relay "A" (power seat relay). After pulling that, The fuse in "C" no longer sparked. One of "C"s functions is "control unit seat adjustment" so that would seem to be the common thread. No spark at battery now. So do I just replace that relay or do we have deeper issues here?

Also found a dead fuse in position "D", (auxiliary fan, at least that's what the inner lid label says. According to Uncle Stu's "Bible", I'm not supposed to have a fuse there till the 93 M.Y.!). Say, wasn't the aux. fan one of the things I was having trouble with? I need to peek in that fuse box more often! Still don't know for sure if that fixed the fan problem though cause it's cold now and the engine hasn't been exceeding about 80C which is too cold to engage the aux. fan. I guess I could turn the air cond. on to engage the aux. fan but I'm afraid to because the car is very low on freon right now. This is not so pressing right now anyway. I'll just keep a close eye on the temp gauge and tend to this issue (if needed) before the weather starts getting warm again.

I need to make this car reliable again. This is supposed to be the wife's car! I gave it to her because up until recently, it was the most reliable car I had ever owned. Now she's eying my latest acquisition: The 95 E420 (Benzer 4) that I haven't even put in my sig yet! We can't have that! "Bolbo 2" was being groomed to be her next car but I haven't had time to finish him.

Please read paragraph two again. Thoughts?
Regards, Eric

gsxr · #21 01-02-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

Some of the problem was traced to fuse "C", but most of the problem was traced to relay "A" (power seat relay). After pulling that, The fuse in "C" no longer sparked. One of "C"s functions is "control unit seat adjustment" so that would seem to be the common thread. No spark at battery now. So do I just replace that relay or do we have deeper issues here?

Beats me - I'd just leave the relay out! Could be a bad power seat control unit (located in the seat frame itself, under the cushion, as seen here).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

Also found a dead fuse in position "D", (auxiliary fan, at least that's what the inner lid label says. According to Uncle Stu's "Bible", I'm not supposed to have a fuse there till the 93 M.Y.!).

Please use a lower case "b" when referring to Stu's "bible". It has numerous errors, and cannot be taken as gospel - as you discovered. All non-V8 cars have a fuse in position D for the aux fan. Only 94-95 M119 V8 cars have cube relays with integrated GM-style fuses instead, located separate from the main fuse box. So yes, your car does need a good fuse in "D" position for the aux fan to operate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

I need to peek in that fuse box more often!

Um, yes. Yes, you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

I guess I could turn the air cond. on to engage the aux. fan but I'm afraid to because the car is very low on freon right now.

If you read my previous post, you would know how to test it without running AC and without getting the car hot: ".... you can easily test this by shorting out the pigtails at the red or green switch at the AC drier behind the left headlight." This will turn the fan on low speed. If it doesn't run, check for +12v at the preresistor below the ABS pump. If voltage is present at only one side, the resistor is bad. If voltage is present at both sides, the fan itself is bad.

400Eric · #22 01-02-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Beats me - I'd just leave the relay out! Could be a bad power seat control unit (located in the seat frame itself, under the cushion, as seen here).

Please use a lower case "b" when referring to Stu's "bible". It has numerous errors, and cannot be taken as gospel - as you discovered. All non-V8 cars have a fuse in position D for the aux fan. Only 94-95 M119 V8 cars have cube relays with integrated GM-style fuses instead, located separate from the main fuse box. So yes, your car does need a good fuse in "D" position for the aux fan to operate.

Um, yes. Yes, you do.

If you read my previous post, you would know how to test it without running AC and without getting the car hot: ".... you can easily test this by shorting out the pigtails at the red or green switch at the AC drier behind the left headlight." This will turn the fan on low speed. If it doesn't run, check for +12v at the preresistor below the ABS pump. If voltage is present at only one side, the resistor is bad. If voltage is present at both sides, the fan itself is bad.

The problem is I'm 6'3" 1/2 and the wife is 5'2" (or so she claims). I'm gonna have to address this seat issue sooner or later.

LOL! Yeah, that's why I always use the quotation marks when I refer to that book.

Yes, I did read your post, I always hang on every word

but I simply have too much to do right now....I know it's only a few minutes to do it but again, this might require the use of a meter which is still packed away somewhere. Plus I have to get B-3 ready for track day! It's OK though because it's hot today(!) and we have to run some errands so we'll have an answer on this by tonight.

Yes I have forgotten how to multi-quote. (Please don't be mad at me.)
Regards, Eric

gsxr · #23 01-02-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

The problem is I'm 6'3" 1/2 and the wife is 5'2" (or so she claims). I'm gonna have to address this seat issue sooner or later.

I'd just have her drive one of the other 124's in your expanding fleet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

I know it's only a few minutes to do it but again, this might require the use of a meter which is still packed away somewhere.

Nope, no meter required for the basic test - short the switch leads (with the key on) and see if the fan comes to life. If it doesn't, then yeah, you'll need a volt meter, or at least a test light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

Yes I have forgotten how to multi-quote. (Please don't be mad at me.)

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

400Eric · #24 01-03-2010, 02:13 AM

What a C.F. today. Battery dead again. I left it hooked up overnight because I thought I had eliminated the "problem". I know this battery was good because when I was having the hard starting problem (because of the bad OVP fuse), I was cranking on that starter a lot and the battery would pull through. But now I'm wondering if I haven't deep cycled it one too many times or do I still have a drain somewhere? I'll try to find out tomorrow. (This battery is only a year and two months old BTW.) What made this day such a C.F. is my jumperbox's switch also went on the fritz today but I didn't know it. So I was chasing a problem with the car that had nothing to do with the car! (While the wife and kids waited impatiently buckled up inside the car!) Bunkness! While I was seaching I discovered the flat fuse/fuseable link thingy that lives on the strut tower in it's own little case right next to the strut mount on the D. side was bad. Is that also for the aux. fan? Anyway, in my desperation, I robbed the one from B-4 cause the one on B-2 turned out to be bad too! Great! Now I'm robbing parts from B-4! So that of course didn't make the car start but I'm sure it fixed something.

The only good news is the aux. fan is working now! Ya-frickin'-hoo!
Regards, Eric

400Eric · #25 01-03-2010, 11:29 PM

Car started fine today because I've gone right back to leaving the battery disconnected when the engine's off. Found my multimeter. I have a .70 amp draw with the alarm off which seems like too much to me. Turning one reading light on takes the total draw to 1.04 amps which means the light draws .29 amps which means the draw is equivalent to running 2 light bulbs inside the car. Again, this seems like more than it should be. More testing tomorrow. Gonna eliminate fuses and/or relays one by one till I find what's causing the draw. Post your guesses now and we'll see who's right tomorrow!
Regards, Eric

gsxr · #26 01-04-2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

While I was seaching I discovered the flat fuse/fuseable link thingy that lives on the strut tower in it's own little case right next to the strut mount on the D. side was bad. Is that also for the aux. fan?

The external, flat 30A strip fuse is for the HVAC blower motor, on all W124's from mid-1987 to end of production. The early V8 cars (1992-93) have two of these external 30A fuses... the second one is for the aux fan high speed.

Sounds like you're on the way to finding the cause of the leak... 0.70 amps is definitely too high. I'd expect less than 0.10 but you could check one of your other cars for comparison.

tinypanzer · #27 01-04-2010, 11:34 PM

Battery drain can be the stupid factory alarm system. They always seem to act up when it gets cold, too.

Lift up your front passenger carpet and take it out. By the footrest area, there's a plastic cover panel secured by a 10mm nut that may have already broken the plastic around it. Remove the nut if necessary, and the panel.

To the left, you will see a wedge shaped black box that says Becker Autoradio if the sticker hasn't fallen off by now. It has two plugs that attach on the left side, one large, one larger. Remove them both. Alarm is now disabled, and this is a GOOD thing.

Also check to make sure the light in your glove box and trunk are shutting off.

OVPs can be a pain. I replaced the one in my 300 just because I didn't want to run into OVP problems. The replacement gave me problems after one month, and I'm running the original again.

Don't give up on your 300SE. They're great cars, and leaks can be fixed (mostly). Hit me up if you need any advice.

AWW CRAP. Just saw that you said 300E not 300SE. Still a great car, but not sure if any of what I said about the alarm location/deactivation is accurate.

mak · #28 01-04-2010, 11:53 PM

check the alt bushes, worn ones will cause problems for the OVP.
Replacing the fuel accumulator to ensure a good pressure
check the Air flow potentiometer at the front . It controls the cold start and warm up RMP's The voltage at the pins can adjusted to specs after prying /removing the cover,This is a sensitive adjustment.
the wiring for the trunk light flexes near the hinges it can short but mostly opens up .
mak
300se

400Eric · #29 01-05-2010, 03:38 AM

Crazy stuff. Bunk stuff. After I finished my testing that day that I found that relay "A" was causing a drain, I had put the "C" fuse back in as I was buttoning everything back up cause I wanted those other functions back that "C" also feeds. After all, I had removed the troublesome relay "A" already anyway right? Wrong. Even with relay "A" gone, fuse "C" is still causing a .70 amp drain. What?!? I'm confused now so I put everything back in and started over. I got my same .70 draw. I then removed fuse "C" and the draw went to .20, still too much of a drain. I then pulled relay "A" and the draw went down to .02 (which is acceptable...probably the clock). Now, leaving relay "A" out, I then put fuse "C" back in and the draw went back up to .70! Now if it seems like this doesn't make any sense that's because it doesn't! (I did wait a long time between moves to make sure to give the meter time to "settle"). Now I've been trying since my teens to get better at solving electrical problems without much success. I just haven't been able to master that skill. I think it's because I wasn't breastfed as a baby and as a result, my brain didn't get to develop to it's full potential.

I read somewhere that jump starting the car can blow the OVP fuse so that may be why I had that issue. I've been jump starting the car a lot since this battery drain issue began.

Now relay "A" only feeds the power seats.... nothing else. So I'm still thinking that there is something wrong there because that's the only thing that relay "A" and fuse "C" have in common but what do I know. Thoughts?
Regards, Eric

gsxr · #30 01-05-2010, 11:21 AM

Maybe try unplugging all the main connectors under both seats, and see if the drain goes away? If so, the problem is in the seats themselves. If not, you've got problems elsewhere.