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  #1  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:48 PM
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300CE starting issues

We have a 1992 300CE with starting issues. Seems to be fine when the car sits for a while and then when it does start and warm up the car won't start again when it is warmed up. Once the car cools down then the car will start again. Seems to be getting more frequent.

My indie says that it is probably a fuel injection problem and that it would be about $1000K. Can't do that right now as I am unemployed.

Any help out there regarding some DIY stuff I could look into doing myself?

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  #2  
Old 01-04-2010, 10:01 PM
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"Probably" a fuel injection problem sounds to me like a mechanic you should never go back to again! Especially for $1,000,000! No but really jokes aside, $1000 for a "probably" is a big no.

I am not too familiar with the M104, so I'll let others start you off.

Is this starting issue only? Or does driving get progressively worse as it warms?
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2010, 10:26 PM
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Sorry, your right, he did say $1k. Sorry for the misprint. This is a starting issue only. I have asked about this question previously on another post awhile back and was told it could be the camshaft sensor. Could this be the culprit? How would one go about diagnosing a sensor defect? When the vehicle is cool it seems to start well...not fine but is livable ( I am really particular about how a Mercedes should start and ride). My indie says that if we have this problem to step on the accelerator and open the throttle a little. I haven't told my son this so I don't know if it will work.
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubadaddy View Post
We have a 1992 300CE with starting issues. Seems to be fine when the car sits for a while and then when it does start and warm up the car won't start again when it is warmed up. Once the car cools down then the car will start again. Seems to be getting more frequent.

My indie says that it is probably a fuel injection problem and that it would be about $1000K. Can't do that right now as I am unemployed.

Any help out there regarding some DIY stuff I could look into doing myself?
I'm experiencing the same problem with a buddy's '92 300E. If you search through some of the threads here you'll find links to testing some of the components such as the CPS, temp sensor, OVP, etc. I can't find the links to them right now, but here's another link for the manual that may be of use: http://mb.auto.pl/index.php/Dok.-serwisowa-CD1.html . I think I've ruled out the O2 sensor, temp sensor, CPS, cold start injector, OVP on this particular vehicle.







 
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  #5  
Old 01-05-2010, 10:21 AM
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Start with the Temperature sensor for the fuel injection. There is another sensor but it is for the engine temp guage. It is cheap fix and just screws in. Always do the Oxygen sensor even though the system doesnt say it is bad.
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2010, 01:50 PM
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Indie say start with the check valve for the fuel pump then the fuel pumps themselves, working my way up to the EHA valve and then the fuel distributor.

Sound right? I don't know where the fuel temp injection sensor is!!?
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  #7  
Old 01-05-2010, 02:56 PM
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the fuel injection engine sensor is up on the front, top side of the engine block on the drivers side. I think the engine temperature sender in close by.
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2010, 06:33 AM
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Fuel pump check valve sounds like a good start. If the fuel pumps run I would move on down the list of likely causes.
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiomike View Post
the fuel injection engine sensor is up on the front, top side of the engine block on the drivers side. I think the engine temperature sender in close by.
Do you have a diagram or such for the location of these? My indie says that they are not there due to it being a CIS M104 engine.

Do you have any more specific info you can share??
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:30 PM
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Could be fuel pump check valve or fuel pressure accumulator. Those are located at the fuel pump, at the rear of the car near the fuel tank. They do go bad as these cars age. Good cold starts but poor hot starts are a symptom of a failed accumulator. There is more info about this available on the web but I can't post it here out of deference to good form.

Last edited by 73Elsinore; 01-06-2010 at 02:46 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2010, 05:24 PM
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Cap
Rotor

when was the last time they've been changed? i ask this, because it definitely sounds like heat increases resistance in the ignition system and you won't start with weak spark type of deal. another possibility is the crank sensor on the bellhousing. eventually they fail and you will NOT start period. without the crank sensor, you have no spark. pull the cap and rotor and check for corrosion. there is sealing o ring that seals the cap and rotor internals from moisture and this oring hardens and cracks over time with all the heat it is exposed to. when it's cracked, you'll have VERY bad corrosion on the terminals.

why have you narrowed it down to fuel injection? sure the accumulator could be a problem, but your car WILL start with a bad one, same for the check valve. you car doesn't start period, right? if the accum. and valve were bad the car will catch and stall a few times before eventually starting. you have to realize, it's HARD to diagnose with just words, you'll have a lot of ideas thrown at you with this problem, but start with the easiest and take a plan of action if something doesn't work out.

also, 4 seconds of cranking for a CIS M104 is considered NORMAL by MB. it may help applying 1/4 throttle at start up if cranking for a while.

i've went through the ENTIRE ignition and fuel injection system on my own 92 coupe. it was hell, lol. PREPARE!
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  #12  
Old 01-07-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmuwk View Post
Cap
Rotor

when was the last time they've been changed? i ask this, because it definitely sounds like heat increases resistance in the ignition system and you won't start with weak spark type of deal. another possibility is the crank sensor on the bellhousing. eventually they fail and you will NOT start period. without the crank sensor, you have no spark. pull the cap and rotor and check for corrosion. there is sealing o ring that seals the cap and rotor internals from moisture and this oring hardens and cracks over time with all the heat it is exposed to. when it's cracked, you'll have VERY bad corrosion on the terminals.

why have you narrowed it down to fuel injection? sure the accumulator could be a problem, but your car WILL start with a bad one, same for the check valve. you car doesn't start period, right? if the accum. and valve were bad the car will catch and stall a few times before eventually starting. you have to realize, it's HARD to diagnose with just words, you'll have a lot of ideas thrown at you with this problem, but start with the easiest and take a plan of action if something doesn't work out.

also, 4 seconds of cranking for a CIS M104 is considered NORMAL by MB. it may help applying 1/4 throttle at start up if cranking for a while.

i've went through the ENTIRE ignition and fuel injection system on my own 92 coupe. it was hell, lol. PREPARE!
Yeah, I not sure about the fuel injection problem myself but I figure I am going to try to replace the easy stuff first--fuel check valves-- as they don't cost alot.

I just replace the cap and rotor last summer and they should be good but I will re-check for a broken cap.

I will investigate the crankshaft sensor but I am not sure of the location. From what I have heard there is a sensor that is long and one that is short I will have to check it out as which one I have.

I love the car but I sounds like its going to be pricey to get the fuel accum replaced and to actually track down the problem without throwing a bunch of money at it. Being unemployed doesn't help either.
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2010, 07:32 PM
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long and short, you heard wrong.

there's only one sensor you should worry about and it's the only one shooting into the bellhousing. it's right above the starter and is a total PITA to get out and back in on a CIS M104. ask me how i know.

the one you should be looking for is this one available here at fastlane: http://catalog.peachparts.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=&yearid=1992@@1992&makeid=63@@MERCEDES+BENZ@@X&modelid=6176%3AMBC|1498%3AED|10000018@@300CE&keyword=crank@@crank&catid=All@@All&subcatid=P%3A242838@@Crank+Position+Sensor&applicationid=W0133-1715281&mode=PA
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2010, 12:15 PM
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Ok, replaced the crankshaft sensor and now I am having problems with the cold start as well.

Where to go from here as far as the DIY??

Need help!!!
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2010, 12:52 PM
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fuel accumulator CIS

CIS systems are prone to hot start problems as the fuel accumulator fails to maintain pressure , the first item to replace along with the fuel filter , then continue with a systematic check of pressures and ignition components .
mak

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