Understand that on any German car that if a drain plug has a washer, this washer is always replaced with a new one and never reused.

This car is designed to have motor oil "vacuumed" out the dipstick tube, and it's sure an easier process and removes the same amount of oil (or more) than draining.

It's the 21st century--why would you even consider nonsynthetic motor oil?

And forget completely all SMs and SJs and viscocity figures and look instead for Mercedes specification approval printed ON THE BOTTLE. Follow recommendations here: http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/9511/?requestedDocId=9511

Your best bet for motor oil is Mobil 1 European Formula 0W-40, which meets Mercedes specifications. Remember, if the Mercedes 229.x number is not printed on the bottle, the oil is NOT suitable for a Mercedes.

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

Wow! Where do I start?

First off - (Question) Those of you who take your cars to the dealer for routine service, do they do a top-side evac of the oil when performing an oil change? Just curious.

Draining by gravity has always worked well for me. I once borrowed a buddy's evac tank for a boat I once owned and I have to tell you, it took a lot longer to get the same amount of oil evac'd than had I been gravity draining it. It only makes sense to me that I will leave more of the old oil in the pan by using vac than draining - after all, I don't believe you can beat gravity when it comes to draining oil! (BTW, I would need to buy another 'space-gobbling' tool that I really don't have the space in my garage for!)

Second - in response to the 21-century remark AND answering your question, "why would you even consider nonsynthetic motor oil?" - I have lived long enough to understand that I will not trust my own personal 'thoughts' or 'feelings' or 'understanding' on how things work or should work or how it will perform if I do 'X' without first delving into it and ASKING others who may (or may not) know a whole bunch more than I on any given subject matter! Such irresponsible attitudes can end up costing far more than I may be prepared for due to damage that might be done. As I have read here someplace, there are as many 'opinions' on this issue of oil as there are members and I am grateful for your link that has educated me more so than before your finger hit the 'submit' trigger!

Third - addressing your last statement, "Remember, if the Mercedes 229.x number is not printed on the bottle, the oil is NOT suitable for a Mercedes." A quote from the link you so graciously provided states: "Mercedes-Benz recommends the use of MB-approved engine oils listed in the Mercedes-Benz oil specification sheet 229.3 or 229.5 which also meet ACEA and/or API classifications listed on the chart below. If a MB-approved or ACEA quality engine oil is not available, then an API quality engine oil meeting the below listed API classification can be used.(SJ or SL - added by me) Only engine oils (including synthetic) with any of the following classification grades, or combinations thereof, are approved."

Now, if I understand this, (looking at the chart in the link) if the bottle has an 'SJ or SL API Classification', it is fine to use.

__________________
Dale

Who was the dumb #ss C.E.O. in Germany that forgot to put a drain plug.
I'll remove my pan and weld a big nut.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran, deutschland deutschland uber alles uber alles in der welt

Yes they do.
You're not going to get all the oil out with either method but the amount left behind is inconsequential.

The advantage is working from the top which is more convenient and that's also where the filter is. What's your life worth? As in the car falls on you. Risk isn't zero. And the time saved not raising the car will help 'defeat' gravity.

Synthetic oil is an organic chemical manufactured to eliminate the components that break down and cause problems in lubricants made from crude oil. The result is a longer service cycle, less wear and corrosion. There is a lot of scientific data to support that. Hence the surprise you wouldn't consider switching.

I highlighted in red the important part.

First and most important, it's your car and your money. So it's your right to make the choice. Like many others on these sites I want my car to last as long as possible so I'm going to use the factory recommended fluids, filters and service cycles in my belief that will help. I think that is prudent but it's not a universal opinion.

Note: to oldsinner111 - look on the right side of the pan. I think you'll find the drain plug there. Maybe the dumba$$ CEO thought it would be safer since it can't get sheared off.

Working from top side does indeed have my attention, just never considered it until now!


Huh?! That was half the reason for this thread. Because I am considering it, we are having this "conversation"!

Agreed. My point is - IF it's NOT available, it's not going to terminally injure the motor!

We're on the exact same page!

__________________
Dale

Well, early W210's with the 3.2l V6 suffered from sludge buildup when owners mistakenly used non-synthetic oils, paper media filters and then tried to use the FSS to determine oil service cycles. Although rare a heavily sludged engine is pretty much toast unless you are able to tear in down entirely and clean it. Cost at a dealer would be more than a replacement.

So if you want to use a non-recommend oil, I'd say shorten your service cycle to 4-5K. Less for heavy service like dusty conditions or mostly stop and go. The irony is that if you do the math, 3 oil changes and paper filters costs almost the same a 1 synthetic oil change and a fleece filter.

As for availability, Mobil 1 European Car Formula 0W-40 (229.5) is available from amazon ($7/qt) but may also be available at PepBoys, Kragen (in the west), O'Reilly's, Autozone, etc. Okay you get the idea.

Also, the doc lkcris posted lists the 229.3 oils which are also recommended for any of the gas engines (except AMG) prior to 2005.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Do you know what brand filters have the fleece 'guts'?
I was looking at Walmart last evening and found that they had the quart sizes only of the European Car Formula of the M1 - didn't ask if they carry the 4 qrt jug.
My mind has pretty much been made up - I will switch!


This is something I've read and would be concerned about as I just can't tolerate oil leaks!


Any idea the cost? I have one of this style wrenches that I purchased for another vehicle sometime along the way but no luck of it fitting!


You guys have convinced me...I will start doing a top-side oil change! You have shown me how much my life is worth. I now realize that my family will be much better off with me here rather than, well, you get the point! I will check out the oil extractor you mentioned. I have seen the MityVac 7300 online for as low as $79.
I hope that I have no issues at all with switching just as your experience has been.

__________________
Dale

I think most of us buy quarts. My local PepBoys told me that the 1 gal containers of oils are exactly 4 times the price of a quart of the same oil so no savings. Although you can use them to recycle your old oil which is a little more convenient than a old milk or bleach bottle.

As far as leaks I don't think you have anything to worry about. When detergent oils replaced non-detergent oils in the late 1950's there was a lot of anguish about leaks. Everyone knew about the 'problem' but no one actually knew someone who's car developed a leak. Now some are saying the same problem will happen if you switch to synthetic oil from crude based.

As for the filter check out the 'parts dept' here. Click 'Buy Parts' at the top. Actually I misspoke on the fleece filter. It's not made for the M104 engine. Sorry. Mann or Bosch cartridge is fine. Follow owners manual or service booklet for your car for service cycles.

Good luck.