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#1
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Smells And Sounds Like Flooding
I have been going crazy working on my 93 300e 2.8l after having it overheat from a blown head gasket. Its probably easier to read the links at the bottom, but here is the quick run down. Car is way too hard to start, taking 30-90 seconds of cranking, and even then sometimes doesn't start. I'm not using it because of this problem, but really need it as we are surviving swapping out our other car to get around.
Replaced head gasket, injector o-rings, water pump, thermostat, temp sensor, OVP relay, CMP sensor, and checked everything twice including connection or vacuum line problems. Timing is good, both mechanically and with a timing light, injectors roughly tested, throttle opens when gas pedal depressed, exhaust comes out tailpipes with no out-of-the-ordinary odor. And once the car does start, runs smooth and fast, like there wasn't a thing in the world wrong. But this morning I got it started and took for a drive, came back, parked, turned it off, and same thing, still a pain to start. Checked codes and got a new one this morning. Pin 14 Code 11 - Fuel safety shut-off signal to engine control module Closed throttle recognition signal to engine control module Any ideas you would be AWESOME, as I have tried all the most common things, and this code is new to me. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1509403-93-300e-no-start.html http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1512326-smells-sounds-like-flooding.html |
#2
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Bump, this is one for the gurus !!!!
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1993 300E, 2.8 M104 ..... |
#3
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with the engine off & aie intake removed...does the throttle butterfly spring itself partially OPEN?
IF not, that most likely is the problem. Will the engine start if you push very slightly on the throttle? Have you re-checked the basic cam timing?
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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES) ASE Master Technician Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times) 44 years foreign automotive repair 27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer) MB technical information Specialist (15 years) 190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold) 1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold) Retired Moderator |
#4
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Barely any spring to the open, maybe a sixteenth of an inch, and a loud buzzing in that area when key is turned on.
Yes, I have checked the timing twice, and it is less than an eighth out on the cams from lining up with the top of the head, and once it does start runs sweet. And I so hope you aren't going to say get a new actuator because an OEM one is $1800 and after-market is $900. And if you are suggesting that is the problem, do you have any suggestions on rebuilding one, because those prices aren't even a possibility for us at the moment. Last edited by thauber; 04-19-2010 at 11:50 AM. |
#5
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I did get it to start quicker by lightly pressing on the accelerator. Tried again after turning it off and was difficult. I then pulled the intake pipe off to expose the butterfly valve, and had my wife turn the engine over without touching the pedal as I used something to very slightly open the valve, and the car started again. Is there a spring inside it that can be replaced to keep it that little bit more open for startup and idle? Would be awesome instead of replacing the whole thing. Found a couple from salvage suppliers in the south east for $200-$400, but still would rather fix the one I have if it is as simple as a spring.
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#6
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Spring is internal on the throttle actuator.
Have you tried cleaning (scrubbing) with scotch-brite pad
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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES) ASE Master Technician Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times) 44 years foreign automotive repair 27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer) MB technical information Specialist (15 years) 190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold) 1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold) Retired Moderator |
#7
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Could this be a gas pedal cable adjustment thing?
did you by any chance touch the throttle actuator/ or its wiring while doing the headgasket? they are notorious for the same wiring failure as the the wiring harness...
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1993 300E, 2.8 M104 ..... |
#8
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Sure its possible I may have touched the wiring, but not enough to have harmed anything. But I will check the wiring to see if it is the old stuff.
Doc, clean what exactly? The inside of the throttle housing where the butterfly valve is? Or take the whole housing out and take it apart and clean it? |
#9
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No, removal is NOT required...
Butterfly opens to allow air IN. Simply scrub out the housing & butterfly with a cleaning pad, remove all of the carbon. Then use an air intake cleaner to wash off the dust.
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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES) ASE Master Technician Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times) 44 years foreign automotive repair 27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer) MB technical information Specialist (15 years) 190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold) 1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold) Retired Moderator |
#10
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Cleaned the inside around the butterfly valve and the valve best
I could without taking it out. No difference, starts easier first time after sitting for a couple hours, but idle in gear is way to low, and turn the car off and ridiculous to start back up. Just like its choking on gas, trying to get air. I checked the external parts to the throttle and there is about a quarter inch or more play before the butterfly valve begins to move. It there something that should be tightened to remove that play. I have never had this kind of an issue on a FI car before, just carb ones, and I never allowed that kind of play. But for all I know, thats how this one is supposed to be. Any idea? |
#11
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Tried cleaning another time just to make sure, no difference. And yes Doc, I'm aware of how a throttle, butterfly valve, and its actuator work, been working on domestic cars for 15 years, this is just my first Benz and I'm not familiar with Benz specs. Going to pull the throttle housing in the morning and take it apart to check the condition of the actuator. Will let you guys know how it turns out as I have nowhere else to go from here.
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#12
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Quote:
good luck
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1993 300E, 2.8 M104 ..... |
#13
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Thanks for the link latief. I went through the adjustments and they were pretty dam close to what they are supposed to be, but I also found on that page the way to reset the ASR. The actuator is going out but the throttle body all cleaned up, so I am getting starts in under 10 secs now, major improvement. Cold it starts right away. Once it does go out, I may have to see about finding parts to rebuild it or just buy a used one, but car is finally after 3 months usable again. YAY. Now lets just hope I can go for awhile without messing with it again. I have some work needs to be done to my '88 Camaro I have been putting off because of this one. Thanks for all the help and info.
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#14
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Glad it is better, big thanks to MBDOC for helping. I pm'ed him to help you and as usual, he nailed the problem immediately!!!
at least now you know where your focus should be......your car has ASR? that is a whole different beast .....
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1993 300E, 2.8 M104 ..... |
#15
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Hard hot starting is due to flooding caused by leaking injectors. Time for new injectors.
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Kent Christensen Albuquerque '07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster Two BMW motorcycles |
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