Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-18-2010, 12:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 34
Smells And Sounds Like Flooding

I have been going crazy working on my 93 300e 2.8l after having it overheat from a blown head gasket. Its probably easier to read the links at the bottom, but here is the quick run down. Car is way too hard to start, taking 30-90 seconds of cranking, and even then sometimes doesn't start. I'm not using it because of this problem, but really need it as we are surviving swapping out our other car to get around.

Replaced head gasket, injector o-rings, water pump, thermostat, temp sensor, OVP relay, CMP sensor, and checked everything twice including connection or vacuum line problems. Timing is good, both mechanically and with a timing light, injectors roughly tested, throttle opens when gas pedal depressed, exhaust comes out tailpipes with no out-of-the-ordinary odor. And once the car does start, runs smooth and fast, like there wasn't a thing in the world wrong. But this morning I got it started and took for a drive, came back, parked, turned it off, and same thing, still a pain to start. Checked codes and got a new one this morning.

Pin 14 Code 11 -
Fuel safety shut-off signal to engine control module
Closed throttle recognition signal to engine control module

Any ideas you would be AWESOME, as I have tried all the most common things, and this code is new to me.


http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1509403-93-300e-no-start.html
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1512326-smells-sounds-like-flooding.html

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-18-2010, 06:27 PM
latief's Avatar
1993 300E 2.8- M104
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 518
Bump, this is one for the gurus !!!!
__________________
1993 300E, 2.8 M104 .....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-19-2010, 10:35 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
with the engine off & aie intake removed...does the throttle butterfly spring itself partially OPEN?

IF not, that most likely is the problem. Will the engine start if you push very slightly on the throttle?

Have you re-checked the basic cam timing?
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-19-2010, 11:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 34
Barely any spring to the open, maybe a sixteenth of an inch, and a loud buzzing in that area when key is turned on.

Yes, I have checked the timing twice, and it is less than an eighth out on the cams from lining up with the top of the head, and once it does start runs sweet.

And I so hope you aren't going to say get a new actuator because an OEM one is $1800 and after-market is $900. And if you are suggesting that is the problem, do you have any suggestions on rebuilding one, because those prices aren't even a possibility for us at the moment.

Last edited by thauber; 04-19-2010 at 11:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-19-2010, 05:18 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 34
I did get it to start quicker by lightly pressing on the accelerator. Tried again after turning it off and was difficult. I then pulled the intake pipe off to expose the butterfly valve, and had my wife turn the engine over without touching the pedal as I used something to very slightly open the valve, and the car started again. Is there a spring inside it that can be replaced to keep it that little bit more open for startup and idle? Would be awesome instead of replacing the whole thing. Found a couple from salvage suppliers in the south east for $200-$400, but still would rather fix the one I have if it is as simple as a spring.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-19-2010, 05:23 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
Spring is internal on the throttle actuator.

Have you tried cleaning (scrubbing) with scotch-brite pad
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-19-2010, 06:58 PM
latief's Avatar
1993 300E 2.8- M104
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 518
Could this be a gas pedal cable adjustment thing?

did you by any chance touch the throttle actuator/ or its wiring while doing the headgasket? they are notorious for the same wiring failure as the the wiring harness...
__________________
1993 300E, 2.8 M104 .....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:09 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 34
Sure its possible I may have touched the wiring, but not enough to have harmed anything. But I will check the wiring to see if it is the old stuff.

Doc, clean what exactly? The inside of the throttle housing where the butterfly valve is? Or take the whole housing out and take it apart and clean it?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-20-2010, 08:12 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
No, removal is NOT required...
Butterfly opens to allow air IN.
Simply scrub out the housing & butterfly with a cleaning pad, remove all of the carbon.
Then use an air intake cleaner to wash off the dust.
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-20-2010, 11:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 34
Cleaned the inside around the butterfly valve and the valve best
I could without taking it out. No difference, starts easier first time after sitting for a couple hours, but idle in gear is way to low, and turn the car off and ridiculous to start back up. Just like its choking on gas, trying to get air. I checked the external parts to the throttle and there is about a quarter inch or more play before the butterfly valve begins to move. It there something that should be tightened to remove that play. I have never had this kind of an issue on a FI car before, just carb ones, and I never allowed that kind of play. But for all I know, thats how this one is supposed to be. Any idea?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-20-2010, 11:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 34
Tried cleaning another time just to make sure, no difference. And yes Doc, I'm aware of how a throttle, butterfly valve, and its actuator work, been working on domestic cars for 15 years, this is just my first Benz and I'm not familiar with Benz specs. Going to pull the throttle housing in the morning and take it apart to check the condition of the actuator. Will let you guys know how it turns out as I have nowhere else to go from here.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:09 AM
latief's Avatar
1993 300E 2.8- M104
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by thauber View Post
Tried cleaning another time just to make sure, no difference. And yes Doc, I'm aware of how a throttle, butterfly valve, and its actuator work, been working on domestic cars for 15 years, this is just my first Benz and I'm not familiar with Benz specs. Going to pull the throttle housing in the morning and take it apart to check the condition of the actuator. Will let you guys know how it turns out as I have nowhere else to go from here.
I left you some links on the other forum. check them out first....

good luck
__________________
1993 300E, 2.8 M104 .....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 34
Thanks for the link latief. I went through the adjustments and they were pretty dam close to what they are supposed to be, but I also found on that page the way to reset the ASR. The actuator is going out but the throttle body all cleaned up, so I am getting starts in under 10 secs now, major improvement. Cold it starts right away. Once it does go out, I may have to see about finding parts to rebuild it or just buy a used one, but car is finally after 3 months usable again. YAY. Now lets just hope I can go for awhile without messing with it again. I have some work needs to be done to my '88 Camaro I have been putting off because of this one. Thanks for all the help and info.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:55 PM
latief's Avatar
1993 300E 2.8- M104
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 518
Glad it is better, big thanks to MBDOC for helping. I pm'ed him to help you and as usual, he nailed the problem immediately!!!

at least now you know where your focus should be......your car has ASR? that is a whole different beast .....
__________________
1993 300E, 2.8 M104 .....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Posts: 1,947
Hard hot starting is due to flooding caused by leaking injectors. Time for new injectors.

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page